We wish to establish a rule protocol to take care of determining the rules to be used in Kick Off 2 WCs on a yearly basis. It has become clear that this is necessary.
The KOA has no rules for adopting a protocol like this. While all thoughts are welcome, we kindly ask that we use our suggestion as written for one year. Then the democratic process described in the protocol can be used to make changes from then on.
Dagh N
Thor S
WC Rule Protocol
1. The game rules for the Kick Off 2 WC in KOA are determined according to this protocol.
2. The baseline rules are those used in the 2015 WC. (See bottom half of this post: viewtopic.php?p=274826#p274826)
3. The rules for a WC are the same as the previous WC, except for changes agreed upon by the procedure in this protocol.
4. Changes are agreed upon by a vote among people who attended at least one of the last 4 WCs.
5. For a change to be adopted, the following is required:
- If the rule change is to revert to one of the baseline rules, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 50% of the votes cast.
- Otherwise, if the rule change is to something that is not part of the baseline rules, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 66% of the votes cast.
-An exemption from the 66% requirement are cpu-slides (aka “auto-slides”, the ‘A’ in APT), which always require only more than 50% of votes cast to be changed on or off.
In all three cases, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 50% of the average attendance of the previous 4 WCs.
6. The votes for rule changes will be organized by the World Cup committee (currently consisting of Dagh N, Gianni T, and Robert S). This committee is charged with giving the final formulations for suggestions up for vote, and will decide by majority within the committee on situations like:
- What to do if there are more than 2 conflicting suggestions for something. (For instance, an elimination vote can be held, or they can let the suggestion with most votes in just one round of voting be adopted, or they can gauge the support for the various suggestions in the forum and eliminate all but 2 suggestions and so on.)
- Whether a change is too involved in a compound like way and should be split into separate suggestions.
The committee members are expected to engage the forum in an open and transparent way and to reply to questions and, on request, offer reasoning before as well as after its decisions are made.
7. Anyone can make suggestions for rule changes in the forum. If more than 7 people offer their support for a vote on a suggestion, the committee will put it up for a vote (after possible reformulations and so on).
8. The votes on rule changes will be open from March 1 to March 31. Each suggestion will be given a stickied thread in a designated section of the forum, with a link to another thread for discussion. Both threads are "official" and set up by the rules committee. Votes are made by posting yes or no (and nothing else) in the voting thread. As such, voters are considered delegates and there is no secrecy of voting.
9. If the procedure in this protocol cannot or is not followed for some reason (technical or practical problems and the like), it is up to the discretion of the rules committee to figure out how to deal with the situation, in cooperation with the forum of KOA people.
10. If adopted, this rule protocol can be changed by the following procedure:
Make a suggestion for a change and hold discussions about it.
Get support from at least 10 people who favor a vote on the change.
Organize a vote with at least 30 days of voting.
The vote is held among participants of the last 4 WCs.
The change is adopted if both of the following conditions are met:
-The number of votes in favor of the change is greater than 50% of the average attendance of the previous 4 WCs.
-The number of votes in favor of the change is greater than 66% of the votes cast.
WC Rule Protocol
Moderators: Rodolfo, Moderators, Rodolfo, Moderators
WC Rule Protocol
Last edited by dnielsen on Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: WC Rule Protocol
Purpose of the rule protocol
Our aim of establishing a Kick Off 2 WC rule protocol is, briefly put:
- to protect and preserve the tradition, fun and competition of the Kick Off 2 World Cup in a positive and friendly spirit.
With the rule protocol, we wish to reach the following goals:
1) That yearly rule discussions are completed long before the next World Cup.
2) That we make use of the accumulated wisdom of 15 years of organizing world cups and discussing rules. [The current 2015 rule set is the result of a long process and can be interpreted as the most inclusive, fair, fun, practical, and competitive rule-set we have been able to come up with so far. As such, we take the current rules as a baseline rule set.]
3) That changes are possible.
4) That changes are not too easy to get through.
5) That changes can fairly easily be reverted back to the baseline rule set.
6) That everybody can suggest rule changes, that discussions are done in public, and that the community decides democratically.
7) That we can discuss rule changes without being derailed into broader fights.
8) That the rule protocol is clear and simple.
9) That World Cup organizers can focus on organizing without feeling they must answer to rule questions and lobbying.
Justifications and clarifications
Below are some comments to the rule protocol in blue text:
1. The game rules for the Kick Off 2 WC in KOA are determined according to this protocol.
2. The baseline rules are those used in the 2015 WC.
The current 2015 rule set is the result of a long process and can be interpreted as the most inclusive, fair, fun, practical, and competitive rule-set we have been able to come up with so far.
3. The rules for a WC are the same as the previous WC, except for changes agreed upon by the procedure in this protocol.
A change can be anything from enabling light wind to playing with pitch walls, and anything else related to Kick Off 2. If the clear majority of players would like to play a certain way, then that’s what we’ll do.
4. Changes are agreed upon by a vote among people who attended at least one of the last 4 WCs.
By holding the vote among previous attendees instead of future attendees, we can hold the vote long before the next World Cup. To make it 4 World Cups seems about right. We get a broad collection of interested people, but we do not include people who haven’t participated for ages. At the time of this proposal, 67 players have attended one or more of the previous 4 WCs.
5. For a change to be adopted, the following is required:
- If the rule change is to revert to one of the baseline rules, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 50% of the votes cast.
- Otherwise, if the rule change is to something that is not part of the baseline rules, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 66% of the votes cast.
-An exemption from the 66% requirement are cpu-slides (aka “auto-slides”, the ‘A’ in APT), which always require only more than 50% of votes cast to be changed on or off.
In all three cases, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 50% of the average attendance of the previous 4 WCs.
The baseline rules of 2015 are a safe bet due to them representing the accumulated wisdom of 15 years of discussions. They have worked well for many years, virtually unchanged. As such, it should always be able to revert back to a baseline rule by a simple and easy 50% majority.
We believe, however, that it should not be too easy to adopt new rules, hence the requirement of a 66% majority. There are probably quite a few people who are happy and familiar with the current rules and appreciate having a yearly weekend of friendly KO2 fun and competition away from the obligations of real life. These people may not wish to be involved in extensive rule discussions year after year. To speak their case and to avoid too much panic during voting time, we find it prudent to ask for a 66% majority before a change away from the safe and tested is adopted. This can be seen as a protection against spur of the moment or “candy at dinner”-like decisions.
That being said, we believe that cpu-slides are a sort of special case. We have played with them on as well as off, and there are pros (competitive fairness) and cons (less chaos and missing something from the original). We suggest that a simple 50% majority is required either way.
We ask for a minimum number of votes in favor of a rule change to prevent silly 3-1 votes to cause a rule change. The formulation of 50% of the average number of attendees from the last 4 WCs ensure that the minimum number follows the actual number of participants at WCs. Right now, it means that there must be at least 16 votes in favor of a change (among the 67 eligible voters from the last 4 WCs.) [Note - The attendance for the last 4 WCs was 38-26-18-38. This is an average of 30, so more than 50% for would be 16.]
6. The votes for rule changes will be organized by the World Cup committee (currently consisting of Dagh N, Gianni T, and Robert S). This committee is charged with giving the final formulations for suggestions up for vote, and will decide by majority within the committee on situations like:
- What to do if there are more than 2 conflicting suggestions for something. (For instance, an elimination vote can be held, or they can let the suggestion with most votes in just one round of voting be adopted, or they can gauge the support for the various suggestions in the forum and eliminate all but 2 suggestions and so on.)
- Whether a change is too involved in a compound like way and should be split into separate suggestions.
The committee members are expected to engage the forum in an open and transparent way and to reply to questions and, on request, offer reasoning before as well as after its decisions are made.
7. Anyone can make suggestions for rule changes in the forum. If more than 7 people offer their support for a vote on a suggestion, the committee will put it up for a vote (after possible reformulations and so on).
We wish to encourage rule suggestions, but we wish to avoid having too many unrealistic suggestions up for vote. By requiring the support of 7 people before putting a suggestion up for vote, we ensure that we only vote on suggestions that have a fairly fair chance of being adopted.
8. The votes on rule changes will be open from March 1 to March 31. Each suggestion will be given a stickied thread in a designated section of the forum, with a link to another thread for discussion. Both threads are "official" and set up by the rules committee. Votes are made by posting yes or no (and nothing else) in the voting thread. As such, voters are considered delegates and there is no secrecy of voting.
We wish to hold the votes already in March so that there is no risk of rule discussions ruining the buzz before a WC. We wish to keep the voting process as simple as possible, hence a forum vote so that everybody can post and edit or repost their vote, follow the running tally, easily find the place to vote without registering on WC pages first and so on. We don’t see a big reason for people to be shy about their votes. On the contrary, open and friendly discussion and diversity of opinion is encouraged.
9. If the procedure in this protocol cannot or is not followed for some reason (technical or practical problems and the like), it is up to the discretion of the rules committee to figure out how to deal with the situation, in cooperation with the forum of KOA people.
Technical and practical problems can be related to tournament software, organizer logistics, missed deadlines for all sorts of reasons and so on.
10. If adopted, this rule protocol can be changed by the following procedure:
Make a suggestion for a change and hold discussions about it.
Get support from at least 10 people who favor a vote on the change.
Organize a vote with at least 30 days of voting.
The vote is held among participants of the last 4 WCs.
The change is adopted if both of the following conditions are met:
-The number of votes in favor of the change is greater than 50% of the average attendance of the previous 4 WCs.
-The number of votes in favor of the change is greater than 66% of the votes cast.
Regards,
Dagh N
Thor S
Our aim of establishing a Kick Off 2 WC rule protocol is, briefly put:
- to protect and preserve the tradition, fun and competition of the Kick Off 2 World Cup in a positive and friendly spirit.
With the rule protocol, we wish to reach the following goals:
1) That yearly rule discussions are completed long before the next World Cup.
2) That we make use of the accumulated wisdom of 15 years of organizing world cups and discussing rules. [The current 2015 rule set is the result of a long process and can be interpreted as the most inclusive, fair, fun, practical, and competitive rule-set we have been able to come up with so far. As such, we take the current rules as a baseline rule set.]
3) That changes are possible.
4) That changes are not too easy to get through.
5) That changes can fairly easily be reverted back to the baseline rule set.
6) That everybody can suggest rule changes, that discussions are done in public, and that the community decides democratically.
7) That we can discuss rule changes without being derailed into broader fights.
8) That the rule protocol is clear and simple.
9) That World Cup organizers can focus on organizing without feeling they must answer to rule questions and lobbying.
Justifications and clarifications
Below are some comments to the rule protocol in blue text:
1. The game rules for the Kick Off 2 WC in KOA are determined according to this protocol.
2. The baseline rules are those used in the 2015 WC.
The current 2015 rule set is the result of a long process and can be interpreted as the most inclusive, fair, fun, practical, and competitive rule-set we have been able to come up with so far.
3. The rules for a WC are the same as the previous WC, except for changes agreed upon by the procedure in this protocol.
A change can be anything from enabling light wind to playing with pitch walls, and anything else related to Kick Off 2. If the clear majority of players would like to play a certain way, then that’s what we’ll do.
4. Changes are agreed upon by a vote among people who attended at least one of the last 4 WCs.
By holding the vote among previous attendees instead of future attendees, we can hold the vote long before the next World Cup. To make it 4 World Cups seems about right. We get a broad collection of interested people, but we do not include people who haven’t participated for ages. At the time of this proposal, 67 players have attended one or more of the previous 4 WCs.
5. For a change to be adopted, the following is required:
- If the rule change is to revert to one of the baseline rules, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 50% of the votes cast.
- Otherwise, if the rule change is to something that is not part of the baseline rules, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 66% of the votes cast.
-An exemption from the 66% requirement are cpu-slides (aka “auto-slides”, the ‘A’ in APT), which always require only more than 50% of votes cast to be changed on or off.
In all three cases, the number of votes in favor of the rule change must be greater than 50% of the average attendance of the previous 4 WCs.
The baseline rules of 2015 are a safe bet due to them representing the accumulated wisdom of 15 years of discussions. They have worked well for many years, virtually unchanged. As such, it should always be able to revert back to a baseline rule by a simple and easy 50% majority.
We believe, however, that it should not be too easy to adopt new rules, hence the requirement of a 66% majority. There are probably quite a few people who are happy and familiar with the current rules and appreciate having a yearly weekend of friendly KO2 fun and competition away from the obligations of real life. These people may not wish to be involved in extensive rule discussions year after year. To speak their case and to avoid too much panic during voting time, we find it prudent to ask for a 66% majority before a change away from the safe and tested is adopted. This can be seen as a protection against spur of the moment or “candy at dinner”-like decisions.
That being said, we believe that cpu-slides are a sort of special case. We have played with them on as well as off, and there are pros (competitive fairness) and cons (less chaos and missing something from the original). We suggest that a simple 50% majority is required either way.
We ask for a minimum number of votes in favor of a rule change to prevent silly 3-1 votes to cause a rule change. The formulation of 50% of the average number of attendees from the last 4 WCs ensure that the minimum number follows the actual number of participants at WCs. Right now, it means that there must be at least 16 votes in favor of a change (among the 67 eligible voters from the last 4 WCs.) [Note - The attendance for the last 4 WCs was 38-26-18-38. This is an average of 30, so more than 50% for would be 16.]
6. The votes for rule changes will be organized by the World Cup committee (currently consisting of Dagh N, Gianni T, and Robert S). This committee is charged with giving the final formulations for suggestions up for vote, and will decide by majority within the committee on situations like:
- What to do if there are more than 2 conflicting suggestions for something. (For instance, an elimination vote can be held, or they can let the suggestion with most votes in just one round of voting be adopted, or they can gauge the support for the various suggestions in the forum and eliminate all but 2 suggestions and so on.)
- Whether a change is too involved in a compound like way and should be split into separate suggestions.
The committee members are expected to engage the forum in an open and transparent way and to reply to questions and, on request, offer reasoning before as well as after its decisions are made.
7. Anyone can make suggestions for rule changes in the forum. If more than 7 people offer their support for a vote on a suggestion, the committee will put it up for a vote (after possible reformulations and so on).
We wish to encourage rule suggestions, but we wish to avoid having too many unrealistic suggestions up for vote. By requiring the support of 7 people before putting a suggestion up for vote, we ensure that we only vote on suggestions that have a fairly fair chance of being adopted.
8. The votes on rule changes will be open from March 1 to March 31. Each suggestion will be given a stickied thread in a designated section of the forum, with a link to another thread for discussion. Both threads are "official" and set up by the rules committee. Votes are made by posting yes or no (and nothing else) in the voting thread. As such, voters are considered delegates and there is no secrecy of voting.
We wish to hold the votes already in March so that there is no risk of rule discussions ruining the buzz before a WC. We wish to keep the voting process as simple as possible, hence a forum vote so that everybody can post and edit or repost their vote, follow the running tally, easily find the place to vote without registering on WC pages first and so on. We don’t see a big reason for people to be shy about their votes. On the contrary, open and friendly discussion and diversity of opinion is encouraged.
9. If the procedure in this protocol cannot or is not followed for some reason (technical or practical problems and the like), it is up to the discretion of the rules committee to figure out how to deal with the situation, in cooperation with the forum of KOA people.
Technical and practical problems can be related to tournament software, organizer logistics, missed deadlines for all sorts of reasons and so on.
10. If adopted, this rule protocol can be changed by the following procedure:
Make a suggestion for a change and hold discussions about it.
Get support from at least 10 people who favor a vote on the change.
Organize a vote with at least 30 days of voting.
The vote is held among participants of the last 4 WCs.
The change is adopted if both of the following conditions are met:
-The number of votes in favor of the change is greater than 50% of the average attendance of the previous 4 WCs.
-The number of votes in favor of the change is greater than 66% of the votes cast.
Regards,
Dagh N
Thor S
Re: WC Rule Protocol
You obviously put a lot of thought into creating a fair, open and democratic process, gents. I give my full support.
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Freshmaker
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Re: WC Rule Protocol
Seems legit.
When and where's the next wc?
When and where's the next wc?
-----------------------------
Silver Cup 2019, LAA 2015, reigning Scandinavian Champ
Founder of FÖKOF, FAKO and The People's Lockout!
WC-Host 2014 and 2017
Il portiere è mongoloide!
http://www.yearnlydom.rocks
I'm a Norwegian boy, I make rock music
Silver Cup 2019, LAA 2015, reigning Scandinavian Champ
Founder of FÖKOF, FAKO and The People's Lockout!
WC-Host 2014 and 2017
Il portiere è mongoloide!
http://www.yearnlydom.rocks
I'm a Norwegian boy, I make rock music
Re: WC Rule Protocol
Wow this took a long time to read. It makes good sense. Others may disagree, but I think the experience of previous weeks has shown that the process of setting world cup rules should be separated from the bidding for hosting.
Re: WC Rule Protocol
Great work. I think this rule set has a great balance between preserving the baseline rules that have been worked out over the past years of the KOA. Under point 2 I'd like to list the 2015 rules.
Played 8 World Cups
2001:10th(out of 30), 2002:19th(26), 2006:21st(50), 2008:25th(41), 2009:10th(34), 2010: 11th(46), 2014: 11th(26) 2015 8th(38).
2001:10th(out of 30), 2002:19th(26), 2006:21st(50), 2008:25th(41), 2009:10th(34), 2010: 11th(46), 2014: 11th(26) 2015 8th(38).
Re: WC Rule Protocol
The 2015 rules are at the bottom half of this post: viewtopic.php?p=274826#p274826
Good idea, Jacob! Dagh, can you update the main post with the link?
Good idea, Jacob! Dagh, can you update the main post with the link?
Fred/Typical
Re: WC Rule Protocol
Thanks, Jacob. I added the link to the Dublin rules to the protocol.
It would probably be a good idea to do a cleaned-up version of the Dublin rules and post it somewhere to be linked to in the protocol.
There is a reference to the specific KO2CV version used in Dublin. This is good as reference for settings we take for granted (but which were possibly not pointed out). But otherwise, this reference is not really needed. We shouldn't need to vote on each new WC KO2CV version which may not change the "out of the box" settings at all, but just alter the banner graphics or some jff options for instance. Also the Dublin KO2CV had an issue in that it did not come "out of the box" with the intended tournament settings.
Item 14 and 15 about leagues and cup matches are a fixture matter (not a game rule matter).
It would be nice to have all bug-fixes implemented in KO2CV so far listed (bugs like ball out of pitch, corner bug, red card bug, substitution steal) so there is full clarity on the matter.
Check the rules list to see if it is exhaustive (maybe there is some setting that we take for granted, but that should be pointed out).
Also, some rules were asterixed with a * to indicate that they could be changed if both players agreed. Maybe we would like to add a few settings to that list if it can be done with broad agreement.
It would probably be a good idea to do a cleaned-up version of the Dublin rules and post it somewhere to be linked to in the protocol.
There is a reference to the specific KO2CV version used in Dublin. This is good as reference for settings we take for granted (but which were possibly not pointed out). But otherwise, this reference is not really needed. We shouldn't need to vote on each new WC KO2CV version which may not change the "out of the box" settings at all, but just alter the banner graphics or some jff options for instance. Also the Dublin KO2CV had an issue in that it did not come "out of the box" with the intended tournament settings.
Item 14 and 15 about leagues and cup matches are a fixture matter (not a game rule matter).
It would be nice to have all bug-fixes implemented in KO2CV so far listed (bugs like ball out of pitch, corner bug, red card bug, substitution steal) so there is full clarity on the matter.
Check the rules list to see if it is exhaustive (maybe there is some setting that we take for granted, but that should be pointed out).
Also, some rules were asterixed with a * to indicate that they could be changed if both players agreed. Maybe we would like to add a few settings to that list if it can be done with broad agreement.
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