2015 rules

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Danny D
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby Danny D » Mon Dec 28, 2015 11:14 am

Thanks Gianni.

The 2015 WC finished at 20:00. Our schedule had this finishing at 18:00.

I learnt that sticking to a schedule is vital and alas we didn't do that very well on day 2.
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby Torchiador » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:10 pm

The problem I mentioned before Chrismas is related to the rules in KO2CV current world cup version disk.
In 2013 and 2014 we didn't have the problem just because we had very few newbies there and those who arrived were already aware about rules and how the KO2cv setting works.
The problem instead happened very clearly this year in which we had many newbies.
I perceived the problem before the world cup when Danny, while he was preparing the post for the world cup rules, he was thinking that the APT setting were at discretion of each player (so called freedom of choice).
His reasoning was easy and clear: KO2CV drives you to think in that way. at the line up screen you have to select the APT individually for each player so, a newbie that download the KO2CV adf can think that APT selection is in that way.
In Milan 2012 (where we had a load of newbies), after the vote was determined and having the settings for the world cup, I asked to SteveC to prepare the KO2CV adf in a way that we just have to plug the disk in and play, having the default setting directly in KO2CV. so we didn't need that every time an amiga was rebooted, to enter in KO2CV advanced options and set the right settings; The only selection needed at the lineup screen was PBD or not PBD.
Then if both players agreed to a different setting, inside the game was easy to change their agreed settings with the "9" key.
This year we had 1/4 or the players that were newbies and the amiga disk wasn't set up like Milan2012 (with proper settings) so we had to go on every single amiga and manually change the settings in KO2CV advanced menu.
This is ok for the first time we did, but, you know, how long a single amiga stays on without to be rebooted? very few hours, usually. So in very few hours we had all the amiga running with with the "freedom of choice" line up menu selection. many even didn't know what was that, so we had a mess there. I tried to catch amiga with wrong settings but it was impossible because often amiga were busy so I cannot ask to stop the game and go in advance option to set it.
The result was that many were using the trapfix in face their opponent who wasn't using and both being ignoring it! There was absence of malices (really hope so!) but that was a fact.
There is even a "smoking gun" about it: just look at the Silver cup final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faDpXO85onM

, you will see Jong playing with Trapfix and Lee playing without it. I don't know if both agreed to the use of trapfix, but it isn't matter, the fact was that Jorg played advantaged on Lee. If Lee lost the silver cup final and he was ignoring his opponent was playing with the trapfix on, now he could be regretting what happened (with right reason) and we should (rightly) invalidate the final result. This is a HEAVY lack about the way we managed this question. and I think we need to think about it seriously.
It was clearly my fault, I didn't change the right advanced settings every time that was needed and I'm really sorry about it.
I have to say that the purpose of the KO2CV disk is to help organizers manage tournaments in the best way. I feel this year I wasn't helped very much from the KO2CV disk. Above all, every year thanks to Jacob we gives away KO2CV disk as souvenir to attendees and having this setting running in, it is possible that the misunderstanding is perpetrated again.

I think the best thing to do is to set the advanced KO2CV setting as near as possible to the KOA rules. that could be very helpful for future tournaments. then if there is people that want to use the trapfix in theirs houses, they can simply go in advanced settings and enable the selection so they don't even need to select it every time.
Last point about it, I'd like to give a suggestion for the KO2CV:
Many are used to switch to lock out using the "8" key which is very near to the "9" key that changes the advanced option state. I would suggest to move this function key to "0" to avoid unintended changes. many times people hit "9" instead of "8" and then have to set back the advanced options hitting several times the "9". I think it could be a smart move to change the function key to "0". And btw, remaining on this line, it would be nice to have a PBD override key. the key that follow the "0" on the keyboard and the numpad would be quite good, in this way we could change the PBD anytime we want, without to his several times the Key to change PBD. I'm sure that players that can focus on different ways to approach the box using the different behaviour of the PBD would appreciate it really much. but I'm going off topic now, it is something I must ask in the KO2Cv wish list!
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby kofoed » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:33 pm

I thought about it when I saw the Silver Cup final, but I only noticed it at the end of the game and then Lee scored the decisive goal so there was no issue. :-)

Of all the games I played there was only one who set Trapfix on but that was corrected on my request before Kick Off.

I guess we could have taken 5 minutes to explain since there were many newcomers. I perceived the rules as Autofix On, PBD Selectable and Trapfix OFF. (But allowed with the golden rule that both players can apply settings to which they both agree). This was the same as the preceding years so that's why we didn't have any vote since there was no change to the rules.

I think you and Danny have a good point there, that from using with KO2CV you could get the impression that freedom of choice is the agreed rule. Maybe we can revive your Milan solution for forthcoming World Cups so we can avoid similar situations in the future.
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2001:10th(out of 30), 2002:19th(26), 2006:21st(50), 2008:25th(41), 2009:10th(34), 2010: 11th(46), 2014: 11th(26) 2015 8th(38).
Lee W
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby Lee W » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:51 pm

aye, i was clear on the rules before the wc because I'd seen it on the forums, but I don't think all tournament attendees visit here much, if at all, so it would look on the face of it that each option was personal choice.

as for the final, it was just one of those things, it wasn't discussed but It didn't bother me tbh, and i certainly wouldn't have agreed to the result being void or anything had I lost.
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby alkis21 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:26 pm

If I remember correctly, the 2014 KO2CV in Copenhagen had the APT choices (the ones you select during the lineups screen) off by default. The default "autoslides off, unintended slides on" options were preset, so that the organizer wouldn't need to keep an eye for Amigas that reset and people play with the wrong settings.

I suppose that was forgotten in the latest KO2CV. It's best that we remember it in the future.
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby Steve Camber » Mon Dec 28, 2015 5:54 pm

After spotting that issue in Dublin I have already reprogrammed the apt menu to automate the "if both players agree" rule. If they don't agree on an option then the default is selected for both players (currently ON for autofix and OFF for trapfix). This avoids any confusion or misunderstandings due to language difficulties. It's also reboot friendly :)
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Bounty Bob
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby Bounty Bob » Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:08 pm

Steve Camber wrote:After spotting that issue in Dublin I have already reprogrammed the apt menu to automate the "if both players agree" rule. If they don't agree on an option then the default is selected for both players (currently ON for autofix and OFF for trapfix). This avoids any confusion or misunderstandings due to language difficulties. It's also reboot friendly :)

Excellent fix. Great work as ever Steve
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Re: 2015 rules

Postby Robert Swift » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:34 am

Good job Steve. That's what I call Kick Off evolution. As oppose to Kick Off Evolution. :-)

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