Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

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Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Steve Camber » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:39 am

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Here the goalie can be seen abandoning his goal and leaving the playing area allowing an easy goal to be scored.

A fix for this bug was made available in KO2CV v1.05 released in October 2010 which prevents the keeper leaving the play area.

Image

It has been suggested that this should become the default for tournaments and I'd like to gather our collective opinion on this.

Please respond with your thoughts on this idea, ideally stating either FOR, AGAINST or DON'T CARE.
One post per person please. Any discussion can take place here : http://ko-gathering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17374

FOR
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AGAINST
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DON'T CARE
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Steve Camber » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:52 am

Personally, it doesn't bother me that much as a KO2 player. I can even use it to my advantage, but as a coder the obvious programming oversight does make me cringe.It's such an easy fix if it was only spotted in pre-release testing.

So, I vote FOR.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby thor » Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:49 am

AGAINST

This would represent the first time the original controllable gameplay is changed for a World Cup. The majority of the narrow angle "MrDig Jawohl!" goals are scored by the attacking player manipulating the goalkeeper into that position. If we start making changes to the controllable gameplay, then we are going down a path where we will be removing the BLC, long range lob goals, offside goals, 180 degree headers, ... We all have our pet peeve. As Chris once said, this kind of goal is Kick Off 2 in a nutshell. There's a reason we still play this game, and I am pretty confident it has nothing to do with it being realistic. If we change the controllable gameplay, it is not Kick Off 2 anymore. It might be a good game, but it is not Kick Off 2. There's already a separate effort underway to create that game. It is called Kick Off Revival. Maybe we can have our cake and eat it too...
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Freshmaker » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:03 am

FOR
I didn't know this existed until I played Nick P in Copenhagen 2006. I knew of the Mr Dig/Jawohl-goal, but not with the goalie running like this. I think Nick scored 6 goals in 1 match, all like this. And ever since I saw it the first time I disliked it. Not because I lose (I can score them as well), but because it's really ludicrous. And after being a member here, learning knowledge about bugs in games etc, I'm very well aware of that this would be removed from the game if discovered prior to release.
Add to that the fact that you can also score from this position even if the keeper stays on the pitch, he'll just make a 10 yard dive in some direction, this means I don't think it'll have such a massive impact on gameplay.
I'm all for.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Danny D » Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:29 am

For.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Rodolfo » Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:57 am

Against.

If you believe this is a filthy way of scoring (as I think of kick off lobs), just do not use it yourself, but do not impose via coding your morals on others. Besides that, as any other game situation, it can be defended properly (I guess; probably not by me).
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Lee W » Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:13 pm

FOR

It's a bug, just like the players coming back on after being red carded, it should not be in the game, Dino himself said he'd have fixed it if he'd had known about it before release.

Regarding controllable gameplay, I'm pretty sure at least that PDB and TrapFix altered the controllable gameplay too, with much more impact to the overall game than fixing one second of nonsense when the keeper vacates the goal.

It does not stop the Jawol goal, it just gives the defending team a FAIR chance and that's all I want, that's why I vote for the fix cause I think the game should be fair for all players instead of keeping a bug in that will drive new players away when they see how much top players exploit it against them.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Steve Camber » Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:19 pm

To maintain clarity, the thread for discussion is here : http://ko-gathering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17374
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby r.cross » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:19 pm

against

As I said in the other thread.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby kofoed » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:21 pm

Against.

Explained in discussion thread.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby chrisad » Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:47 pm

Against.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Torchiador » Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:17 am

This vote has been suggested to change the original gamplay. This change denies to score a specific goal.
One of the prerogatives of the KOA is to preserve the game in a way that every player must be able to train with the 2 original KickOff2 disk with PBD and NO PBD. without the necessity to have KO2CV disk.
Basically, if a player is able to score just that kind of goal. he will be denied to score at all.
With this vote we aren't just going to change the game play but we are even going to change the goalkeeper behaviour and above all, we are going to CANCEL a specific goal. A goal that it is allowed in both the original kick off 2 disk. Basically it is violated "the 6th day"
If the KOA would have a constitution, this vote would be banned as anti-constitutional.
In the past we changed the gameplay to be able to play single games in equal terms allowing both the players to play with their favourite ball control, both allowed by the original game.
We never touched the Goalkeeper behaviour. we never dared to cancel a specific goal. Although many of the goal scored in KO2 come from a bugged behaviour of the goalkeeper, not last the lobs.
As to me this vote is anti-constitutional I wound't even vote, because there is nothing to vote for.
Anyway, if this vote will be considered fair, legit and in line with the KOA prerogatives (May God have mercy upon your soul)

I'd like that a delicate vote would be defined in an accurate way. Not like this.

We need a selection on who can vote and who cannot vote.
An open vote like this allows votes from unknown person/fake accounts with no restriction.
In particular this is a vote for default rule tournament. and in the specific, for the World Cup. A vote like this should be allowed just to people who joined recently world cups. To avoid that people who aren't joining the world cup decide for people that spend money to join a world cup.
So, basically a vote for a change like this should be put, like previous years, just to world cup attenders, for the upcoming world cup to define the default rule to set.
If the same vote has got the same result for some year, we can assume it as default. Like it happens with Autofix, PBDmix and A=B and no trapfix.

Finally, I'm against. and even If I didn't get in touch with the Kick Off House crew about this matter. I could bet 10000 Euro that Mario, Fabio, Sandro, Alessandro and all the players that love the game the way it is, are all against.
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Re: Proposal - Keeping the goalie on the pitch

Postby Steve Camber » Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:16 am

As I stated "I'd like to gather our collective opinion" - it's just sampling the opinion of forum regulars to get a picture of how the KOA feels in general about this idea. Hence the lack of a specific group of voters and time frame. What we do with the resulting information is another matter entirely.
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