My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Steve Camber » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:39 am

Freshmaker wrote:Much the same.

Hardly.
Freshmaker wrote:My point is that if we should remove bugs, then let's at least remove the ones that are the most lame...

This has been in progress for years.
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Freshmaker » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:50 am

Steve Camber wrote:
Freshmaker wrote:Much the same.

Hardly.


As mentioned, it's a matter of opinion. To me, the keeper-bug is way worse than the trapslide. And being able to take advantage of the keeper-bug causes way heavier numbers vs an opponent who don't know how to defend it.
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby gdh82 » Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:32 pm

Freshmaker wrote:
Steve Camber wrote:
Freshmaker wrote:Much the same.

Hardly.


As mentioned, it's a matter of opinion. To me, the keeper-bug is way worse than the trapslide. And being able to take advantage of the keeper-bug causes way heavier numbers vs an opponent who don't know how to defend it.


Whether one is worse than the other is not the point here imo. You seem to be ignoring the KOA stance on 'fixing' goals, as I described above.

Freshmaker wrote:And if my defender is not able to put pressure on you, stopping you from trapping, you can easily trap, move - and score.


I wish it was that easy! I love trying to wrong foot Si when he's pressing me down the wings. Sometimes I do but most times I don't. Then again he is the world's best defence! :lol: The point is the player in possession has more options than when playing with limited trapping functionality (unintended slides). The defending player can still use his skill and reflexes to respond and gain the ball.
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby hogstrom » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:25 am

Right, i throw myself back into this discussion ;)

First, as stated on the other part (tournaments) of the forum, i agree with you Garry that in the future we must separate the two slides. I very much defend the slide that occures when you try to trap the ball and opposition is too close or when it´s about a loose ball and opposition player touched the ball last. Bug or not, as you know, for me it is a big part of the defending game in kickoff2 and will always defend it to stay in the game.

The other one is by many close to hated and thus difficult issue. I dont know what i belive should be done, or undone with it :?o:

However, in time for the next Wcup voting simply MUST take place months before October/November arrives. If a majority would vote for both slides OUT of the game i would need much more than approx. 10 days of practice with that version, preferable vs human opposition. Thus voting about rules should be ended before September arrives, if you ask me.

Who should be allowed to vote? People that have never entered a Wcup, should they be allowed to vote? I say no. We could make it easy and only allow votes from the group of people that have partipicated in 2-3 of the latest 5 Wcups (or similiar). Thus we have the core of the KOA that decide about these delicate issues.
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Steve1977 » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:10 pm

Totally with you John in that whoever does do the next world cup has got to treat this vote with the highest of importance - and transparency. Given how heated these discussions get it needs to be handled like a general election. As you say, it needs to be sorted months in advance. Only sticking point is late confirmations but maybe the final cut off should be 1 month before the world cup?

Many people now prefer the CV settings and many people prefer the game without. So there needs to be a letter sent out to everyone who's attending. In this letter will of course be a welcome to the 11th World Cup and in there will be a form to fill in advising them of the rules. They can then choose to vote either by returning this form by post or by submitting them via PM.
Personally Id prefer it to be all done by mail.

However any vote submission would only be active when they supply a Flight Number or other proof they'r coming.
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Bounty Bob » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:19 am

Steve1977 wrote:However any vote submission would only be active when they supply a Flight Number or other proof they'r coming.
Which can't be the best way as only people that don't care about settings will spend money on a flight or hotels before the result of a vote is known. I'd only book a flight once I knew which settings were being used, so would be ruled out of a vote under your suggestion, thereby making it more likely that new settings would be passed.
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Steve1977 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:57 am

Hiya Mark

I was basing this on the assumption that people would be attending regardless of the rules due to last years vote 60/40 in auto slides favour. Yet the remaining 40% - a very significant number of attendee's - enjoyed the event regardless. Appreciate everyones different but do think you'r cutting off your nose to rule yourself out if your preferred settings were not used. But as mentioned, everyones as important as each other and whoever organises needs to make sure they involve everyone.
It is worth mentioning though that any settings used is going to be decided by a democratic vote and thus, in my opinion, anyone who does get the opportunity to vote, should be the ones going to the world cup.

Im presuming therefore you'r against removal of slides? :D
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Bounty Bob » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:23 pm

Hi Steve :)

Steve1977 wrote:Appreciate everyones different but do think you'r cutting off your nose to rule yourself out if your preferred settings were not used.
Not even a little bit.

Steve1977 wrote:It is worth mentioning though that any settings used is going to be decided by a democratic vote and thus, in my opinion, anyone who does get the opportunity to vote, should be the ones going to the world cup.
Or anyone that would go providing they were playing the right game. It's just been bad luck that has meant I couldn't attend the last two world cups. In '09 I had no job, so couldn't waste money and this year I didn't have enough holiday days left but that doesn't mean I didn't want to go.

I certainly want to play in future world cups and I'd be gutted if my vote would have been the deciding one and I couldn't cast it because I hadn't bought a flight ticket. I'm certainly not going to spend any money until the settings are known.

If the majority vote for no slides, then I'm more than happy to live with that and not go.

Steve1977 wrote:Im presuming therefore you'r against removal of slides? :D
That question is rhetorical isn't it? :D

I know that you don't get it, but I tried playing slide free and didn't enjoy it. It's that simple. Why would I play something that I don't enjoy?
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Jam King » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:41 pm

hi all, just read a few posts on this thread, i agree that the vote must be taken very serious from whoever takes on the job that was so well organised in germany, but i feel that as was proved in Germany that most players will make the effort and turn up whatever the vote just purely thru the love of the game and the experience and fun of meeting with other koaers. there are a few players that are dead against certain rules and will not attend if thses rules arent played which is fair enough, but it will make things awkward if they cannot confirm attendance until the rules are also confirmed. then as the same as last year just take the votes of the confirmed attendees and once the votes are in then email the ones who are dead against certain rules and let them know whether to bother booking a flight or not. u cant please everyone all the time thats just life.
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Steve1977 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Bounty Bob wrote:
I know that you don't get it, but I tried playing slide free and didn't enjoy it. It's that simple. Why would I play something that I don't enjoy?


I thought we were passed this now? Removing Auto's bugs the hell out of you, others prefer to let the issue slide. Sorted.
What we'r now discussing is that this rule discussion shouldnt be glossed over and automatically decided Late in the Day.
Also think it's important that anyone who votes is going to the world cup. Going round in circles is a Long Road to Ruin and leaves us all Up in Arms

Or anyone that would go providing they were playing the right game.

hehe, it seems like Only Yesterday, but I played the game All Summer Long with A>B, used to do line up changes to bug my mates and selected random pitches - No Regrets. Oh and I also played the original and cracked copies. Try and come up with a definitive version from all that! One in Ten chance I'll give you that! If only there was a competition version... :) If you speak of a 'real version' then its the one where your mates used different settings each time and one where your best friend knocked your joystick as you'r about to take a penalty :lol:

If the majority vote for no slides, then I'm more than happy to live with that and not go.


Fair enough.

Even at this early stage it goes to show that with all the usual stuff a World Cup entails, large chunks of energy will be expended on this very issue. So it's paramount it's discussed openly and with a definitive outcome we all agree with on whats going to happen. This isnt the Garden of Eden nor Paradise City, but we can all agree on the best way to come to a conclusion - Aint it Fun?. Get it sorted early Next Year IMHO. Then people havent got to use all their energies on discussing this and can get on with the usual nitty gritty of making the world cup The Thing That Dreams Are Made Of, you know...Something Good...creating a nice Aurora around the event so we can then all Plug in Baby and have fun...who is organising it anyway?! BountyBob?? :lol: come on mate! Be no air fair to pay then!!! :D
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Freshmaker » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:59 am

Steve1977 wrote:
Bounty Bob wrote:
I know that you don't get it, but I tried playing slide free and didn't enjoy it. It's that simple. Why would I play something that I don't enjoy?


I thought we were passed this now? Removing Auto's bugs the hell out of you, others prefer to let the issue slide. Sorted.
What we'r now discussing is that this rule discussion shouldnt be glossed over and automatically decided Late in the Day.
Also think it's important that anyone who votes is going to the world cup. Going round in circles is a Long Road to Ruin and leaves us all Up in Arms

Steve, please, tone it down a bit.

Firstly, the one definiton of what's a proper democratic vote isn't better than the other.

Having said that, it's not just Mark who's bugged by the removal of "autos", as you describe them. Where Mark and I differ is that, from what I understand Mark don't like the removal of "bugs" at all, while I'll gladly see autoslides removed, but wanna keep what you refer to as the "unintended slide bug" (and I like to call "the trap-slide").

Anyway.This year a majority voted for NO removal of the "trap-slide". Now, from what I see we're discussing this like it's natural to have this vote every year. Are you guys serious? It's been voted down, so we keep on voting untill we "get it right"? I'd say we keep it under the standard rules; if both players in a match wanna remove them, remove them. If one of the players wanna keep them in, they stay in. This approach both keeps it interesting for us "conservatives" while still leaving the field open for "liberals" / "radicals" (call you whatever you want) to play the game the way they like while playing each other. This also respects the fact that there are players who's learned to control these "bugs".
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby gdh82 » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:35 am

Freshmaker wrote:
Steve1977 wrote:
Bounty Bob wrote:
I know that you don't get it, but I tried playing slide free and didn't enjoy it. It's that simple. Why would I play something that I don't enjoy?


I thought we were passed this now? Removing Auto's bugs the hell out of you, others prefer to let the issue slide. Sorted.
What we'r now discussing is that this rule discussion shouldnt be glossed over and automatically decided Late in the Day.
Also think it's important that anyone who votes is going to the world cup. Going round in circles is a Long Road to Ruin and leaves us all Up in Arms

Steve, please, tone it down a bit.


I'm not sure if this is another interpretation issue but what exactly do you think needs toning down here?

If I've got this right Steve's suggesting that only those attending should be able to vote. Mark only wants to come if he can play with his preferences so wants to vote before booking a flight. I'm sure any reasonable organiser would listen to that point of view.

What they have in common is that they both agree to respect a future vote. John H (who shares a similar view to you, Jorn) also thinks having a vote is a good idea.

Freshmaker wrote:Anyway.This year a majority voted for NO removal of the "trap-slide". Now, from what I see we're discussing this like it's natural to have this vote every year. Are you guys serious? It's been voted down, so we keep on voting untill we "get it right"? I'd say we keep it under the standard rules; if both players in a match wanna remove them, remove them. If one of the players wanna keep them in, they stay in. This approach both keeps it interesting for us "conservatives" while still leaving the field open for "liberals" / "radicals" (call you whatever you want) to play the game the way they like while playing each other. This also respects the fact that there are players who's learned to control these "bugs".


Yet you now seem to suggest we shouldn't have a vote because we had one last year??? This sounds the most undemocratic suggestion I've heard yet. Are you reading other's posts ? Didn't you see how close the WC vote was? You talk of respect but your suggestion of using a previous year's vote to play with slides as a default would completely disrespect the large numbers of players who prefer a slide choice. Respect works both ways of course. Have a vote. Respect the outcome, surely. Players whose preferences concur can still play 'their way' regardless of the vote.

Steve1977 wrote:who is organising it anyway?! BountyBob?? :lol: come on mate! Be no air fair to pay then!!! :D


Obviously this was posted tongue in cheek but what about it, BB?

Stop posting those sad smileys about becoming 'inactive' and start organising!!! :)
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Re: My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

Postby Freshmaker » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:57 am

gdh82 wrote:
Steve1977 wrote: I thought we were passed this now? Removing Auto's bugs the hell out of you, others prefer to let the issue slide. Sorted.


I'm not sure if this is another interpretation issue but what exactly do you think needs toning down here?

This is the part of the post I react to. As far as this debate goes, it's obvious the issue isn't sorted. Mark's got his full right to state his views just as you and Steve have. I could put it like this:

Not having Autos removed bugs the hell out of you, others let the issue slide. Sorted. It's not respectful, neither towards Mark nor the discussion. The fact that Mark and Steve disagrees don't take away Marks right to keep his view. Just as you've been doing your "slidefree"-campaign since before the '08-WC. Your views are stated again and again and again. Should you not be allowed to keep on stating them?

As far as my proposal goes; what's wrong with it? It takes into consideration the fact that there is a major disagreement in the KOA about this issue. Some say doing it the one or the other way affects their game, but still you wanna force them to play a different way? That's neither democratic nor respectful in my eyes. That's egocentric.
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