Joysticks

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Re: Joysticks

Postby alkis21 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:12 pm

Yes they all cost 5000-5500 drachmas back then. We benefited from a healthy competition of two fantastic joysticks, the Pacman (like the one Panayotis uses) and the Tomahawk (like the one I use). The fact that they remain in perfect working condition after 20 years says it all.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Torchiador » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:14 am

Kostas O wrote:
dnielsen wrote:Nothing can compete with the Italian handheld joysticks!

I was also amazed by the joystick Gianni is using. Terrific feel!

You're right, it is a shitty joystick but it is damned quick! of course the back side of the coin is its intrinsic inaccuracy.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Torchiador » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:48 pm

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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:00 pm

Torchiador wrote:Dagh, this is for you:

http://cgi.ebay.it/3-x-Arcade-Turbo-Joy ... .m63.l1177


Thanks! But I don't think I can use them, I need the red/black Turbo model with a button on top. I'm really only interested in the rubber ring inside, but I am not sure I can separate the rubber ring from the stick without having to do some gluing afterwards. I also can't remember if the parts from the ordinary Arcade and the Turbo model are compatible, I took a look in 92, but can't remember exactly how things were.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Kostas O » Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:23 pm

Dagh this might interest you.
http://www.arcadeshop.de/Joysticks-Mag-Stik-S-black_617.html?osCsid=d3f3bcfc6d8b65dcafa0722dc594cb9b
They call it the Mag-stick, it uses a magnet instead of a spring and claims to have very short travel. Don't know about the quality though.

A google search will give this:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=stick+mag

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Joysticks

Postby j^aws » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:12 pm

gdh82 wrote:
dnielsen wrote:Here's a video with an "ultimate mod" of a JLF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytcbzZmXaI

I think the idea is to get shorter engage and throw distances and a stiffer spring (=quicker return to center). In other words, to make it more LS-32 like.


I wonder if I could do this to create a super greek (cms) stick ? [...]


You don't need to do any of that with the CMS stick to make it a Super Greek Stick! I've tried most sticks mentioned in this thread and some others that haven't, and even modded them internally to perform even better (though not all with KOx); the stock CMS is a very good stick but its microswitches are slow. Thankfully it has very fast centering, with a lightweight shaft and good spring, but you can upgrade its microswitches to make the stick better without any of that stuff shown in that video... Although you'd need some soldering skills to replace the current ones...
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Re: Joysticks

Postby gdh82 » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:26 pm

j^aws wrote:[You don't need to do any of that with the CMS stick to make it a Super Greek Stick! I've tried most sticks mentioned in this thread and some others that haven't, and even modded them internally to perform even better (though not all with KOx); the stock CMS is a very good stick but its microswitches are slow. Thankfully it has very fast centering, with a lightweight shaft and good spring, but you can upgrade its microswitches to make the stick better without any of that stuff shown in that video... Although you'd need some soldering skills to replace the current ones...


Thanks for the tip. My good buddy has already done some soldering in order to repair a CMS. Now we just need to look out for some suitably evil super microswitches, eh Steve ? :)
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Kostas O » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:55 pm

Sorry guys but the CMS that you can find now is total crap compared to the rigid feel you get with the old greek sticks from back the good old days. Maybe a little too stiff for KO.
Only my old "CMS controller 8" without the "+" feels soft but CMS have always used crappy microswitches (not to mention the firebuttons) and the allignment of the new ones is a nightmare.
I tried to build a new one with the stick of a CMS but it was too much of a hassle.
That's why i got a couple of new japanese sticks and proper buttons to see what can come out of this.
With a little luck i will make out what this says
http://www2.burg-halle.de/~schwenke/parport.html
so that i can build an adaptor for the PC (which i don't have :lol: )
Anyway the order must be delivered by the end of the week so i will come back with more feedback on who it went and a review of the sticks and buttons i bought.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:07 pm

j^aws wrote:
gdh82 wrote:
dnielsen wrote:Here's a video with an "ultimate mod" of a JLF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytcbzZmXaI

I think the idea is to get shorter engage and throw distances and a stiffer spring (=quicker return to center). In other words, to make it more LS-32 like.


I wonder if I could do this to create a super greek (cms) stick ? [...]


You don't need to do any of that with the CMS stick to make it a Super Greek Stick! I've tried most sticks mentioned in this thread and some others that haven't, and even modded them internally to perform even better (though not all with KOx); the stock CMS is a very good stick but its microswitches are slow. Thankfully it has very fast centering, with a lightweight shaft and good spring, but you can upgrade its microswitches to make the stick better without any of that stuff shown in that video... Although you'd need some soldering skills to replace the current ones...


Hi J^aws,

welcome to the forum! It's nice to see that you are familiar with things like Greek and Japanese sticks, and modding. What kind of games have led you to take an interest in this mostly retro-like stuff, if I may ask? And, might there also be a KO2 player hidden in you? :P
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Re: Joysticks

Postby j^aws » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:57 pm

Kostas O wrote:Sorry guys but the CMS that you can find now is total crap compared to the rigid feel you get with the old greek sticks from back the good old days. Maybe a little too stiff for KO.
Only my old "CMS controller 8" without the "+" feels soft but CMS have always used crappy microswitches (not to mention the firebuttons) and the allignment of the new ones is a nightmare.


Do you know what make and model the old CMS sticks used for microswitches?

You can tune microswitches with the spring etc. to get that softer feeling (with lower actuating forces); but the slow switches in the current CMS are definitely not the best...

I tried to build a new one with the stick of a CMS but it was too much of a hassle.


Yeah, they're not really designed for custom mounting, but doable with some effort...

With a little luck i will make out what this says
http://www2.burg-halle.de/~schwenke/parport.html
so that i can build an adaptor for the PC (which i don't have :lol: )


I haven't gotten around to it myself yet, but it might be easier to hack a cheap USB pads PCB instead, much like any other pad for any system, for a platform agnostic controller... There are plenty of sites around the net with tutorials...

dnielsen wrote:Hi J^aws,

welcome to the forum! It's nice to see that you are familiar with things like Greek and Japanese sticks, and modding. What kind of games have led you to take an interest in this mostly retro-like stuff, if I may ask? And, might there also be a KO2 player hidden in you? :P


It's kinda weird, but I recall getting heavily into modding sticks with the release of the original KO, way back in the 80s. Definitely enjoy twitch-based games like it, including shoot-em-ups (which recently made me revist what the current crop of digital controller are capable of). But I don't recall any other game so demanding of your controller! Sadly, I'm rusty at the franchise now having shamelessly forgotten it for so long... I stumbled upon KO'02 recently though, after being reminded of the franchise, when I found some old sticks that were especially modded for KO! Most of them in a broken state! :lol:

The Arcade stick that you've mentioned in this thread made by STC (aka Suzo) is a home version of one of my all-time favourite sticks for twitch based games. The home version is somewhat different from the real arcade version(s); different actuator design (rocker type) and smaller, V4 sized levered microswitches (same type as the aforementioned CMS stick, but faster) compared to the more commoon, V3 sized switches found in most digital sticks... I actually tried those on the CMS; they were faster but too hard and a mis-match for the spring though...
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Kostas O » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:03 pm

I know it might be trivial to most but i just found out.

Kostas O wrote:With a little luck i will make out what this says
http://www2.burg-halle.de/~schwenke/parport.html
so that i can build an adaptor for the PC (which i don't have :lol: )

No need to :gban:
The Amiga 4-joystick adaptor is supported by the PPJoy
http://www.geocities.com/deonvdw/Docs/PPJoyMain.htm
and it works like a charm!
I built one of these a couple of weeks ago, for KO-4-player experimentation and some serious Dynablaster battles if anyone is interested. It is quite easy to build if you follow this scheme http://www.hardwarebook.info/Amiga_4_Joysticks.
Now all i need is a proper winXP PC.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby j^aws » Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:51 pm

gdh82 wrote:Thanks for the tip. My good buddy has already done some soldering in order to repair a CMS. Now we just need to look out for some suitably evil super microswitches, eh Steve ? :)


There are plenty of places on the net to look out for "suitably evil microswitches", but this link is a good starting point to browse (I've ordered from them before):

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... 4294957311

For the CMS, you should filter the search for "V4 housed" microswitches. Most sticks in general, including Japanese sticks, use "V3 housed" microswitches; it's just an international standard for the size of the switches for mounting...

Other important filters:

- Actuator type: Lever/ Short Lever.

- Terminal type: Solder. Kostas mentioned earlier about the CMS microswitches having alignment problems. Usually when switches are mounted onto a PCB, they have some sort of guide/ pins to align them consistently and accurately, but on the CMS, they are mounted without these guides and only with solder to secure them. You need some patience to mount them accurately with solder.

On the positive side, this also allows you to mount them closer or further away from the shaft, so that you can vary the enage distances. The CMS already has a very short throw and engage (small deadzone), so you don't need to do any of that stuff shown in the video above to achieve the same result. Also be careful not to mount them too close, otherwise the shaft will start hitting the case of the switches. And don't burn the case with the soldering iron!

- Operating Force: The stock switches are somewhere around 0.6 - 0.8N (Newtons) from my experimentations. Filter for something on the lower side for softer switches and the higher side, for harder switches...

- Differential: I'm not sure on this but you can always check with their technical support; but the smaller this number, the faster the switch. When I mention slow/ fast switch, I don't mean how early they engage, but as with all switches of this type, there is an inherent lag when the switch changes from an on/off state (due to their snap-action, mechanical mechanism)...

Hope this helps FWIW...

EDIT: Added "Lever/ Short Lever".
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:51 am

Kostas O wrote:Anyway the order must be delivered by the end of the week so i will come back with more feedback on who it went and a review of the sticks and buttons i bought.


Any update? :D

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