Joysticks

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dnielsen
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:25 am

Another memory note:

Hello all. I playtested my three custom joysticks (JLF with square gate, JLF with octagonal gate and an LS-32) and I'd just like share my thoughts on using these with fighting games.

Please note that I have played on japanese cabinets for as long as I remember because I'm based in east Asia (currently in the Philippines). That said, I'm sure my experiences will differ from others.

-The JLF with the octagonal gate is weird in a sense that I actually have to exaggerate the motions to get them out. The engage actually feels longer....and I felt forced to feel the gate when I'd do circle motions. I must admit I didn't spend too much time with this joystick since I was frustrated with it. It offered no advantages for me over the square gate in any game.

-The LS-32 was a unique experience. I was expecting to really "feel" the advertised shorter engage than a JLF, but I really didn't. Does anyone else actually feel the difference? The stiffer spring made it feel natural for some fighters that rely on fast reactions like 3S. For MVC2 however, I found that the stiffer spring made it harder to do long combos with a lot of circular motions. Lastly, it seemed more natural doing QCFx2 motions as compared to the Sanwa.

On a sidenote, I can't help but feel that the LS-32 feels "cheaper" than the JLF. To compound matters, I noticed that the LS-32 has a "loose neutral position" where you can wiggle it around a bit in neutral state.

-I'm still comfortable as ever with the JLF and square gate with any kind of fighting game. The looseness really makes circular motions easier, especially things like double 360s. The corners are helpful for down-back charge characters and 3D games where you sometimes need to end an input with a diagonal. There comes a point however that it becomes a little *too* loose after months of constant use.

-For buttons, the Sanwa buttons is hands down the best for fighters. I'd go for Seimitsu buttons for shooters/shmups/etc however because of the slightly stronger tactile feedback.

I'd like to hear other people's thoughts as well. It's interesting to see how different joysticks work with different people, and that there isn't a single joystick that is universally the best for everyone.


People warn against the octagonal gate on the JLF. In general, people say that circular movements are possible on square gates, you just have to get used to make movements that don't touch the gate.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:04 am

Here's a video with an "ultimate mod" of a JLF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytcbzZmXaI

I think the idea is to get shorter engage and throw distances and a stiffer spring (=quicker return to center). In other words, to make it more LS-32 like.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Tripod » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:08 am

This is starting to look like somebody will have an unfair advantage because he will use the most precise joystick ever built. ;)
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:11 am

Nothing can compete with the Italian handheld joysticks!
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Kostas O » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:51 am

dnielsen wrote:Nothing can compete with the Italian handheld joysticks!

I was also amazed by the joystick Gianni is using. Terrific feel!
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Re: Joysticks

Postby gdh82 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:49 pm

dnielsen wrote:Here's a video with an "ultimate mod" of a JLF:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QytcbzZmXaI

I think the idea is to get shorter engage and throw distances and a stiffer spring (=quicker return to center). In other words, to make it more LS-32 like.


I wonder if I could do this to create a super greek (cms) stick ? Bit a sellotape here, paper there! :idea: Nah, it'll probably pack up completely after I tried to meddle with it! :oops: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Joysticks

Postby alkis21 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:23 pm

I had actually asked for CMS to make me such a joystick for the 2002 world cup. After that stick lost to Rikki Fullarton I never used it again, and gave it to Sid as a gift last year.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Kostas O » Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:52 am

I just placed an order on Arcadeshop.de
Hopefully they are reliable.
1 x Sanwa Restrictor GT-Y (427) = 4,50Euro
1 x JLF-TP-8YT (Sanwa) (413) = 19,75Euro
Color darkblue
1 x Sanwa Bat Top LB-30N, red (603) = 3,50Euro
1 x Seimitsu PS-14-GN-CP, red (454) = 2,75Euro
1 x Seimitsu PS-14-DN, black (509) = 2,10Euro
1 x Seimitsu PS-14-D-BK, red (491) = 2,00Euro
1 x Sanwa OBSF-24, red (374) = 1,90Euro
1 x LS-32-01 (Seimitsu) (524) = 19,50Euro
Color red
1 x Seimitsu Balltop LB-30, red (485) = 2,20Euro
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:56 am

Kostas O wrote:I just placed an order on Arcadeshop.de
Hopefully they are reliable.
1 x Sanwa Restrictor GT-Y (427) = 4,50Euro
1 x JLF-TP-8YT (Sanwa) (413) = 19,75Euro
Color darkblue
1 x Sanwa Bat Top LB-30N, red (603) = 3,50Euro
1 x Seimitsu PS-14-GN-CP, red (454) = 2,75Euro
1 x Seimitsu PS-14-DN, black (509) = 2,10Euro
1 x Seimitsu PS-14-D-BK, red (491) = 2,00Euro
1 x Sanwa OBSF-24, red (374) = 1,90Euro
1 x LS-32-01 (Seimitsu) (524) = 19,50Euro
Color red
1 x Seimitsu Balltop LB-30, red (485) = 2,20Euro


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Re: Joysticks

Postby Kostas O » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:10 pm

:lol:
The prices are pretty good, don't you think?
Dagh which button do you reckon will fit KO needs best?
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:31 pm

Kostas O wrote::lol:
The prices are pretty good, don't you think?
Dagh which button do you reckon will fit KO needs best?


I think it will come down to personal preference. Both the Sanwa and Seimitsu buttons should be good (which probably means they should also both have a quick return to neutral which you like when you want to do trap-release-dribble), with the Sanwa buttons being more touchy.

Yes, the prices are perfectly reasonable, it's funny that high-quality joysticks today are cheaper than the crap we paid a fortune for as kids 20 years ago, not even taking inflation into consideration.

I have no tools, but I will try and see if I can purchase a custom made one.

Anyway, among the links I gave you, you should be able to find every possible piece of information regarding self-building one (mounting advice etc.). Basically, you can go to

http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/introduction.html

for a deep guide, and then to this forum for any question that might pop up:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/index.php

In the latter forum, every expert in the world seems to be exchanging information as well as patiently and carefully helping out any noob around. You just need to register and wait for manual accept in this forum.

Personally, I think I will go for the Seimitsu LS-32 stick, putting focus on a short engage distance and quick return to center. It is generally considered the best all-round joystick. But, the Sanwa JLF is the most popular joystick around, and it will possibly feel more "soft". And if one doesn't like the softness, one can always do the ultimate mod as I linked to above. I will eagerly await your report!

PS. What is the shape of the extra restrictor you bought?
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Re: Joysticks

Postby Kostas O » Sun Nov 23, 2008 4:42 pm

dnielsen wrote:Yes, the prices are perfectly reasonable, it's funny that high-quality joysticks today are cheaper than the crap we paid a fortune for as kids 20 years ago, not even taking inflation into consideration.

I paid for my Greek stick 5000 drachmas (15 euros) in 1990-91 a twentieth of what a paid for my Amiga. I asked around and calculated that the Amiga without the monitor was like buying today a mid-range iMac. Not considering the fact that today it's A LOT cheaper to build a computer.
dnielsen wrote:I have no tools, but I will try and see if I can purchase a custom made one.

It's fairly easy if you are a bit handy with wood and tools.
dnielsen wrote:Anyway, among the links I gave you, you should be able to find every possible piece of information regarding self-building one (mounting advice etc.). Basically, you can go to

http://www.slagcoin.com/joystick/introduction.html

for a deep guide, and then to this forum for any question that might pop up:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/index.php

In the latter forum, every expert in the world seems to be exchanging information as well as patiently and carefully helping out any noob around. You just need to register and wait for manual accept in this forum.

I have checked out all of these sites and probably get some ideas from them but will go for a design of my own. It just needs a lot of patience to make something really cool!
dnielsen wrote:Personally, I think I will go for the Seimitsu LS-32 stick, putting focus on a short engage distance and quick return to center. It is generally considered the best all-round joystick. But, the Sanwa JLF is the most popular joystick around, and it will possibly feel more "soft". And if one doesn't like the softness, one can always do the ultimate mod as I linked to above. I will eagerly await your report!

I have put my hopes on the Seimitsu as well but wanted to try both since the Sanwa is so popular.
dnielsen wrote:PS. What is the shape of the extra restrictor you bought?

Don't know for sure but will probably be 53mm like the square one that is bundled with. Sanwa's catalogue doesn't mention the size but will probably not fit the Seimitsu if that is what you are looking for.
Oh no you said the shape, not the size! It's the octagonal one.
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Re: Joysticks

Postby dnielsen » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:00 pm

Kostas O wrote:I paid for my Greek stick 5000 drachmas (15 euros) in 1990-91 a twentieth of what a paid for my Amiga. I asked around and calculated that the Amiga without the monitor was like buying today a mid-range iMac. Not considering the fact that today it's A LOT cheaper to build a computer.


Well, they must have really robbed us kids in Denmark. A joystick was 30-40 euros back then, and they were generally even much lower quality than the greek stick! (except my Arcade Turbo, which is pure awesomeness :lol:)

One problem with my Arcade Turbo is that it uses a robber "ring" instead of a spring. Once that ring gets more loose, you lose the quickness of the joystick (return to center mainly) and the ability to make quick tap-tap moves. I bought 5 Turbos on Ebay, and only one has stiff enough robber. Besides that, the engage distance also varies a bit from model to model, depending on how far down the microswitches are soldered. And, the springiness of the microswitches also influence the quickness of the joystick. What the joystick does well is a unique stick design that allows every possible finger and wrist movement to help in moving the stick around, as well as a perfect "increasing resistance ending with the click of a microswitch" when moving in a direction, leading to smooth, yet springy movements (unlike for example the zip sticks where movements are more abrupt and clumsy, imho, at least in the yellow/black model, and also in the ordinary Arcade joystick, where there just isn't the same smoothness as in the Arcade Turbo). It also has a very short engage distance, and a very solid stick design.

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