Bridging the Autoslide Divide in the UK ?

[alkis21]

Garry has just tried to find a middle ground so that everyone can play KO2 together.

That was my impression as well and Mark, I think your last post was uncalled for.

[Bounty Bob]

Well I am sorry BountyBob, but as far as I have seen it... Garry has just tried to find a middle ground so that everyone can play KO2 together... this is all he has done. He may have strong opinions in favour of the bug free version, but he is not demanding anything whatsoever of anyone that they have to use it.

Meanwhile, we have you and your stubborn, "my way or the highway" attitude, with cheap shots indicating you wont play unless you have your own way. Boo hoo.. that's the sort of mature attitude that gets people a long way in the world doesnt it?

All I'm saying is I don't want to play the new options, what's the problem with that? It's me on the highway, everyone else can still enjoy. I just don't get why it's a problem when it's not for me. The only issue I have is when people keep suggesting ways for me to play a version that I don't enjoy!!

And as for the boo hoos, who threw their teddy out the pram when they realisde that the world cup vote hadn't gone the way they wanted? What happened to, the next Newent will be with the world cup vote outcome? I pissed myself when I read your about face on that one when you realised that things hadn't gone the way you hoped. At least I'm a man of my word.

You then argue about this issue being a game engine change, yet you have zero factual evidence of this and are blatantly suggesting that Steve Camber does not have a clue as to what he is doing. If Steve Camber says it is a bug, it is a bug.. deal with it. I dont see you getting off your arse and looking at the ko2 source code in your spare time.

Auto slides are a bug, I don't care what Steve says on this issue and for him to suggest otherwise is just wrong. I'll gladly go through the code with him and have a look at his proof at the world cup. Don't try and turn it into me not appreciating what Steve has done, I fully respect his work.

Unless you want to have a chat with Dino Dini or Steve Camber or some other person who knows the KO2 source code as well as them, to confirm your viewpoint, why don't you stop causing trouble?

What trouble am I cuasing? What possible trouble is it to anyone if I don't play Kick Off without autoslides? Please remember that the only official vote on this has gone in favour of keeping the autoslides, so don't try to make me out as a lone wolf on this just because I express my views every time the subject is raised.

Surely the option to allow each player to enable/disable their teams autoslide bug is a positive way forward for everyone to unite on. Arguing this is unfair for one or the other players is kind of like the argument about allowing 1.4 and Oracle ball control to be included isnt it.. ?

Well, if I can choose to have your players autosliding I'll do it, fantastic idea James.

Everyone lives with this nowadays and there is lots of fun being had at many tournaments, thanks to it.

I refer you once again to the only official vote. Not everyone lives with this, the majority have voted to stay with the autoslides, so why can't you respect that? To suggest that the whole KOA is living with this is ridiculous.

Please continue to have fun without the autoslides, but don't for one second expect me to. Is it that hard to get it into your heads that I don't enjoy playing the game that way?

[Bounty Bob]

Garry has just tried to find a middle ground so that everyone can play KO2 together.

That was my impression as well and Mark, I think your last post was uncalled for.

I'm just tired of the fact that he doesn't seem capable of understanding that I don't want to play without autoslides, I really don't see the big deal. For me the game changes too much with them gone, it's not the same. Some people enjoy it more and that's fine, I respect their opinion. I'm not trying to make them play with autoslides, that's why I'm not interested in the middle ground. Why should anyone have to play half our games without full enjoyment? It'll be like going back to PBD/No PBD. I doubt I'd still be playing at all if we still had half the games played with PBD as I don't enjoy playing that way at all. It's a waste of my time to spend it doing something that I don't enjoy, life's too short and I have too much else to do. I've spent too much time trying to explain myself on this point but people just don't get it. I'm sad that KO2 is heading out of my interest zone but happy for everyone else to be happy. Can't everyone just be happy that I'm happy to not play with autoslides?

[JamesHBeard]

All I'm saying is I don't want to play the new options, what's the problem with that? It's me on the highway, everyone else can still enjoy. I just don't get why it's a problem when it's not for me. The only issue I have is when people keep suggesting ways for me to play a version that I don't enjoy!!

But maybe you dont grasp that nobody wants anyone to stop attending KOA organised tournaments just because of a game setting....

And as for the boo hoos, who threw their teddy out the pram when they realisde that the world cup vote hadn't gone the way they wanted? What happened to, the next Newent will be with the world cup vote outcome? I pissed myself when I read your about face on that one when you realised that things hadn't gone the way you hoped. At least I'm a man of my word.

Yep, thats a fair comment. In fact, I laughed a lot when I went back on my decision as well, it was great fun but I knew nobody attending was going to care either way (once you confirmed you could not make it..) .. . I will always prefer to play with bug free version but it is not going to stop me attending an event that has slides in it.

Auto slides are a bug, I don't care what Steve says on this issue and for him to suggest otherwise is just wrong. I'll gladly go through the code with him and have a look at his proof at the world cup. Don't try and turn it into me not appreciating what Steve has done, I fully respect his work.

Why are we arguing then, if you agree they are bugs ? Steve has always maintained they are bugs. I just want the bugs out and you want them in.. I guess.

What trouble am I cuasing? What possible trouble is it to anyone if I don't play Kick Off without autoslides?

Trouble caused by stating you will not attend KOA tournaments which dont meet your demands. You are the only person stating such strictness.

Please remember that the only official vote on this has gone in favour of keeping the autoslides, so don't try to make me out as a lone wolf on this just because I express my views every time the subject is raised.

Nobody else is willing to hang up their boots from official tournaments which use the UK champs settings.. just yourself, that I know of anyway.

Well, if I can choose to have your players autosliding I'll do it, fantastic idea James.

Lol, I will decide how my players behave thank you.. but with this idea, you can decide how you want yours to.

I refer you once again to the only official vote. Not everyone lives with this, the majority have voted to stay with the autoslides, so why can't you respect that? To suggest that the whole KOA is living with this is ridiculous.

My apologies. I was thinking of everyone I play against on a regular basis.. Anyway, the vote was 50% is.. 45/55 %? .. so we are at the 1.4 versus Oracle stage of the KO2CV release again..

Please continue to have fun without the autoslides, but don't for one second expect me to. Is it that hard to get it into your heads that I don't enjoy playing the game that way?

I absolutely understand this but why not find a solution to keep the entire KOA happy, rather than walking away? That is all I ask of you.

[alkis21]

All I'm saying is I don't want to play the new options, what's the problem with that? It's me on the highway, everyone else can still enjoy. I just don't get why it's a problem when it's not for me.

When the person who has played more games than anyone but me and Robert in the KOA says that he's not playing anymore, it's only natural for people to care. Not to mention that some people may enjoy your company during a tournament. You should be flattered, not having tantrums. When I quit the KOA for a few months much less people seemed to give a shit than they do about you.

Anyway, you made your point and I think everyone gets it. I suggest to everyone to stop trying to come up with an alternative rule to satisfy you.

[Steve1977]

Garry: your starting to ruin my enthusiasm.

No need to feel like that mate.

There's every need. People have stated their opinion and yet here you are going on about it again. We're sick of it. You like playing without autoslides. We get it. We got it a fucking eon ago. You've got the game how you want to play it and in doing so have spoilt it for some others. You obviously don't think it's reasonable that people feel like that, but that's just the fact of how it is. Your campaign seems to have been succesfull in the UK and a large portion of players want to play with the Garry settings, so can't you just leave it?

I wanted to post when I read what this thread has degenerated into but didn't know password off the top of my head (was at work)However James said exactly what I wanted to say.

To single out Gaz is unfair. This message board is for discussing the game and we wouldn't be anywhere if we didn't have an opinion. Besides, I thought the question was aimed to Stainey.
Above all though, we'v gone over Autoslides in other threads but this thread was about trying to compromise for the good of the UK KOA scene! Yep, this includes playing with Autoslides off or on depending on who was travelling.

No-one has forced anyone here to use Autoslides in their tournies. It's up to the host to use whatever settings he so desires. It just so happens that the Newent guys prefer Autoslides off. This wouldn't have affected Kobra's attendance one bit...it didn't effect our attendance last year when attending Kora's & Heathrows and wouldn't affect it now.
This thread has been all about compromise and it's sad to see it's been shot to pieces. Baffling.

One key factor for me in all of this is that when I first joined the KOA you were one of the players who I enjoyed playing regulary. One of the stalwarts of the KOA. So for you to threaten to quit over this issue is very much cause for concern...and perhaps this is one of the reasons why Autoslides have been extensively discussed - because it would be a shame to lose anyone from the KOA.

I don`t want to be thinking about attending tornaments.. whether this slides autoslides rubbish is going to be talked about.. set in stone or whatever... really starting to piss me off... I want to go to have fun...
Oh there`s a tornament over there - I want to go ( with tornament settings ) or whatever..

I highly doubt that this talk about 'different versions' is hardly a recent occurance! Infact after looking through the old posts I know for a fact it isn't.
I want to have fun too and regardless of the settings, I do so. I had no doubts whatsoever in travelling down to Heathrow in the middle of winter through the pouring rain for a A>B tournament at Waynies because it's still the same game. Ditto with Autoslides.

[gdh82]

I've been without internet access all day but I'm actually relieved given what has been posted!

Garry has just tried to find a middle ground so that everyone can play KO2 together.

That was my impression as well and Mark, I think your last post was uncalled for.

Thanks James, Alkis and Steve - the intentions of this thread are entirely good whether or not Mark can see that. Me, Ste and Si had a really positive chat on the subject journeying back from Newent. We'd had a great time and we're thinking of ways that more UK players could get together. I actually wanted to move on and hoped this thread could bring players together. I know, this seems hopelessly naive now.

I wrongly thought that given Mark's recent interest in a Newent tourney that his view had softened and didn't for a second think this thread would get the over-reaction it has. Besides which, as I stated in the top post, this thread is far from exclusively about Mark's views.

I'd already said yesterday, Mark, that I clearly understood your position now and wouldn't be asking again, and I was actually seeking Stainy's viewpoint when you nevertheless felt the need to post your outburst earlier! Please don't feel the need to keep posting to this thread. It's about more that just you!

I am of course still interested in Stainy's views/suggestions and that of Waynie and Sid, either by pm or to this thread.

[Bounty Bob]

Auto slides are a bug, I don't care what Steve says on this issue and for him to suggest otherwise is just wrong. I'll gladly go through the code with him and have a look at his proof at the world cup. Don't try and turn it into me not appreciating what Steve has done, I fully respect his work.

Why are we arguing then, if you agree they are bugs ? Steve has always maintained they are bugs. I just want the bugs out and you want them in.. I guess.

Shit, that was a typo!!! Been crazy busy all day. Meant to say not a bug.

Trouble caused by stating you will not attend KOA tournaments which dont meet your demands. You are the only person stating such strictness.

I still don't see the trouble, I'm not actually demanding anything. I've said plenty of times that I'm happy for everyone to be enjoying their games. I'd be less happy attending an event where the popular options were taken away just so that I'd turn up. I'd be there knowing that everyone else was having less fun because of my preference, which would br pretty shitty.

Please continue to have fun without the autoslides, but don't for one second expect me to. Is it that hard to get it into your heads that I don't enjoy playing the game that way?

I absolutely understand this but why not find a solution to keep the entire KOA happy, rather than walking away? That is all I ask of you.

But there is no solution. Either I'm happy, everyone else is happy, or we're all playing 50% if games unhappy.

[Bounty Bob]

When the person who has played more games than anyone but me and Robert in the KOA says that he's not playing anymore, it's only natural for people to care. Not to mention that some people may enjoy your company during a tournament. You should be flattered, not having tantrums. When I quit the KOA for a few months much less people seemed to give a shit than they do about you.

I appreciate all that and it's nice but everyone needs to understand that I'm not having any tantrums. I'm not saying, "you must have these settings, or else I'm not attending". I'm saying, "If these settings are in place, then I don't want to attend".

Anyway, you made your point and I think everyone gets it. I suggest to everyone to stop trying to come up with an alternative rule to satisfy you.

That's a fine suggestion. It's not the fact that tournament settings are heading out of my enjoyment zone that pees me off so much as the continuous efforts to compromise. If you have a gay friend who likes gay man sex, do you indulge in the gay man sex because he likes it? What about if he suggests one week of gay man sex, followed the next week by lovely lady sex. Would you be happy, or would you start to become annoyed by his efforts to get you to do something you won't enjoy? New KO2 is gay man sex to me.

[JamesHBeard]

It's not the fact that tournament settings are heading out of my enjoyment zone that pees me off so much as the continuous efforts to compromise. If you have a gay friend who likes gay man sex, do you indulge in the gay man sex because he likes it? What about if he suggests one week of gay man sex, followed the next week by lovely lady sex. Would you be happy, or would you start to become annoyed by his efforts to get you to do something you won't enjoy? New KO2 is gay man sex to me.

Yes but it is just as easy to argue as... if you have one top friend who plays Oracle KO2 and one top friend who plays 1.4 KO2, what you do is alter the KO2 game engine, so that both of these guys can play KO2 at the same tournament and even against each other, with their preferred control method. Whether they are gay or not is of no consequence.

And let us all not forget that for a very long time in the KOA and with some very heated debates ( a lot worse than this has ever got..) , there were a lot of people who deemed Oracle ball control as a bug, yet a compromise was found and everyone continued to play the great game.

[Bounty Bob]

Can we at least agree that Pedro is gay?

[Abyss]

Garry has just tried to find a middle ground so that everyone can play KO2 together.

That was my impression as well and Mark, I think your last post was uncalled for.

Even though I really like Garry and the KOA enthusiasm he brings (After all, I have even dedicated time and work to make the KOASI tournament calendar based on his recommendations), I do think that his anti-autoslide crusade is a bit annoying and have said that to him before. Reading his posts on the matter I almost feel guilty for not wanting to play without autoslides. STOP MAKING ME FEEL GUILTY GARRY

It seems this discussion has already been resolved with both parties understanding each other, but I wanted to say this in Mark's "defense" (As if it was needed...).

[gdh82]

Even though I really like Garry and the KOA enthusiasm he brings (After all, I have even dedicated time and work to make the KOASI tournament calendar based on his recommendations), I do think that his anti-autoslide crusade is a bit annoying and have said that to him before. Reading his posts on the matter I almost feel guilty for not wanting to play without autoslides. STOP MAKING ME FEEL GUILTY GARRY

As you say, Spyros, this disagreement has already been resolved so I don't wont to say too much and reopen it but I do take your point. I guess I feel that I have had to explain my choice of tournament setting as they seem to be regularly questioned/belittled etc and I guess this explanation could be being misconstrued. Similarly when I feel the debate on an issue is being closed down, I strive to allow one to a happen, and have created threads that I consider to be balanced discussions. Again misunderstandings probably follow and it is all seen as a "crusade". This thread for instance was all about compromise but you wouldn't think so to read the replies.

I'd like to think that despite our forum spats, me and Mark can laugh it off when we next meet? Hope so anyway.

At the end of the day I don't really have any special powers to make anyone feel guilty of course, least of all the WC Champ!