are these tips for real?

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are these tips for real?

Postby waynie » Sat Dec 27, 2003 5:11 pm

guys,

found a copy of PM in my disk box and am thinking of getting back into it. as i never play it much, i thought about getting some pointers from the web. found the following stuff from a site:

1) Buy a few young, cheap players and keep them in the squad for a whole
season. Next year, their price will have increased and you should have no
trouble selling them for a huge profit.
2) Only buy players with very high agility ratings, as this effects all
their other attributes. If agility is high (about 200), expect the player
to become an excellent footballer, given a season or two.
4) Remove 8 or 9 players from your team, then after 2 or 3 big defeats
you will receive sponsorship.

i suppose #1 should be ok but any substance to the others? i had no idea...might be why i was never that good at it when i last played (12 years ago)

happy hols
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Postby durban » Sat Dec 27, 2003 6:20 pm

1 and 2 are deffo correct mate.

First thing I always did on first day of season (even more so first day of career) was check for 18yr olds.

The main skill I always looked for were players with Pace and Stam near to 200.

If you ever found a player with say 170 pace and 170 Stam and he was 18 then buy him, within 3 seasons he would be about 195 195 and worth a fortune.

Also Agility was a huge thing to look for, it basically meant you could retrain players, also a player who plays a lot thru the season seems to do better in terms of improvement next season, and a player with high agility will play well in any position.

Another hint I always thought was reduce your squad to a max of 14 players. This way you 'seemed' to get less injuries and suspensions...if you had a huge squad is seemed your star players were getting injured week in week out...not sure if thats a hint but it certainly seemed to work for me.

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Postby waynie » Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:35 pm

cheers durban.

so, in a nutshell, the most important stats to look at are agility, pace and stamina...in that order? and also snap up kiddies, either to nurture them or to flog for a profit in future. be interested to read what some of the others do especially those who have built their own teams such as robert and james.

i guess i seldom played PM coz i always thought of it as a short-lived game coz your own PM is at the end of his playing career and his stats are in decline. but i've read about some of the guys here who have played their PM to really old ages and even played as a goalie.

presumably, the stamina falls with age, so a senile PM would hardly be able to keep up with the game?

and if you train your PM as a keeper, doesnt he still get controlled by the CPU regardless if you PiP or PaaT?

last time i played PM, i seemed to notice that it played slightly different from KO2. is that coz my players had poor stats and couldnt kick straight...or is it supposed to be a bit tedious?
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Postby alkis21 » Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:32 am

waynie wrote:so, in a nutshell, the most important stats to look at are agility, pace and stamina...in that order?


Shooting is very important as well for midfielders & attackers. As soon as you start winning titles and earning money, you will be able to afford expensive players. Once you're in Division 1, you'll only want to buy 700K or more players. Tip: Save your game at the end of the season and if you don't see what you want in the beginning of the next season, try quitting and reloading. Careful though, if you play as a team slow players will be of little use to you.

and also snap up kiddies, either to nurture them or to flog for a profit in future. be interested to read what some of the others do especially those who have built their own teams such as robert and james.


Well basically pretty soon profit will not be an issue as you will earn much more money than you need.

i guess i seldom played PM coz i always thought of it as a short-lived game coz your own PM is at the end of his playing career and his stats are in decline. but i've read about some of the guys here who have played their PM to really old ages and even played as a goalie.
presumably, the stamina falls with age, so a senile PM would hardly be able to keep up with the game?


Here's what I do: I always play as a team. As soon as my player starts becoming too slow, I use a special tactic I designed. In this tactic, all he does is guarding the corner flag so basically I'm playing with 10 man instead of 11! :) But at least I get to control the whole team for decades.

last time i played PM, i seemed to notice that it played slightly different from KO2. is that coz my players had poor stats and couldnt kick straight...or is it supposed to be a bit tedious?


Well the games are different. PM is much more like Kick Off 1 than Kick Off 2. But you will manage to play better when you have a fast team with straight shooting players.

Finally, here's a screenshot from my record: More than 10 goals of average per game (I'm playing a Greek version I made)! :

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Postby Robert Swift » Sun Dec 28, 2003 2:16 am

Waynie mate! I have so much to teach you here it's unreal!

Player Manager is the joint best game ever along with KO2. However...

I guess that before you start, you have decide WHY you want to play Player Manager. Is it just to experiment? Is it to play it purely as a self-contained game (i.e. never cheat?) Or is it in order to generate teams and tactics which you can then load up in Kick Off 2?

James Lockerbie and myself played purely for the last reason, and the teams and tactics we created enriched our KO experience for many years before the KOA arrived and returned us to a 'base' format. However we still have these teams and tactics and get them out for personal use. A number of KOA members have also appreciated them and preferred them.

Based on why you are playing the game, I can advise you accordingly. Suffice to say that if you are mainly concentrating on making teams and tactics for KO (though you still have to be good at the game) then there is quite a bit of reloading and replaying games involved. This is mainly because you need to win the cup and get promoted in order to afford the good players as they appear.

By the way, down below in various threads, I have already spelled out my route to success in a couple of long posts. You'll find them with a bit of searching.

Also if you are working in St Albans on Friday, give me a call as you'd be most welcome to come round for a KO2 and PM session. We need to work on your long ball defence matey :-)
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Postby waynie » Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:02 pm

Thanks for your feedback alkis & robert.

Alkis, I especially like the “old man by the corner flag” trick. No matter, it clearly works for you and it’s interesting to see that no-one else in your table has a positive GD.

Robert, how do you get around this problem of the ageing PM? At the moment, I’ve put my PM in goal and am training him in handling…around 120 pts now. It’s good fun coz he’s leaking goals, meaning that the scorelines I get are all very exciting. From what another poster said in an earlier thread, the PM can reach 200 in keeping and age forever in goal.

The reason I’ve decided to get into the game is to give KO a bit of a role-play feel. So rather than play 20 single player games on the trot, I’d be playing 20 games, interacting with the players in between games and hopefully winning some silverware at the end. At the same time, I’d be playing PM as a management sim where I actually have an influence on the results as opposed to watching tiny dots. Ultimately, if/when I get a better understanding of the tactics, I’ll probably want to try my hand at custom making some of my own, which will hopefully complement my KO2.

I shan’t be back @ work till 5th Jan, so I wont be at the office on fri, thanx for the invite tho. My KO2/PM tuition will have to wait!

From what I have read and seen, it appears that the four disciplines (handling, tackling, shooting and passing) can fluctuate depending on training, regular games and age. But the other attributes such as agility, pace and aggression don’t really change over a player’s career. Also a player’s value is pretty much proportional to these stats and this may account for why no-one seems to look to the lower price categories for bargains on the transfer market. In fact a player’s valuation is often taken as an indication of that player’s quality, i.e., expensive players are all good players, age considered. Is this correct?
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Postby Robert Swift » Mon Dec 29, 2003 3:09 am

waynie wrote:Thanks for your feedback alkis & robert.

Robert, how do you get around this problem of the ageing PM? At the moment, I’ve put my PM in goal and am training him in handling…around 120 pts now. It’s good fun coz he’s leaking goals, meaning that the scorelines I get are all very exciting. From what another poster said in an earlier thread, the PM can reach 200 in keeping and age forever in goal.


OK, first to be clear, I only use the Player Manager until the team is so good that they can win by themselves. I play the game as a game for those first three or four seasons but after that I am just harvesting it for players to make elite KO2 teams. I always start the game with the Player Manager as a Striker (if I don't get one I restart) because you need someone who can kick straight. He'll need at least 150 shooting, or expect shots to fly off at 45 or even 90 degrees when you want to tap into that empty net.

The aim for the first two seasons is to get promoted and win the cup. This way you start the 3rd year in the top division with enough money to buy anyone decent who appears in the transfer market (particularly on the first day of the season when the new 18 year olds are generated).

There is simply nothing worse than seeing a great player appear on the first day and then having to haggle. If you lose the negotiation then he WON'T be there next week and he's lost forever.

waynie wrote:The reason I’ve decided to get into the game is to give KO a bit of a role-play feel. So rather than play 20 single player games on the trot, I’d be playing 20 games, interacting with the players in between games and hopefully winning some silverware at the end. At the same time, I’d be playing PM as a management sim where I actually have an influence on the results as opposed to watching tiny dots. Ultimately, if/when I get a better understanding of the tactics, I’ll probably want to try my hand at custom making some of my own, which will hopefully complement my KO2.


Lots of different aims there. PM is a great game to play purely as a game. But once you have played for several years and experienced the joy of loading your hard-earned squad and tactic into Kick Off 2.....well, it's all about maximising their potential as a Kick Off 2 team. The linking of these games really was the master stroke of the whole genre.

I recommend that you get into tactic design quite quickly. Don't start from scratch - start by modifying 4-2-4. Just by using the tactic engine you will observe and learn MUCH about how the game AI works, and the players behave in 4-2-4 and others. You'll notice plenty of weaknesses to remove (and exploit when others are using it!)

waynie wrote:I shan’t be back @ work till 5th Jan, so I wont be at the office on fri, thanx for the invite tho. My KO2/PM tuition will have to wait!

From what I have read and seen, it appears that the four disciplines (handling, tackling, shooting and passing) can fluctuate depending on training, regular games and age. But the other attributes such as agility, pace and aggression don’t really change over a player’s career. Also a player’s value is pretty much proportional to these stats and this may account for why no-one seems to look to the lower price categories for bargains on the transfer market. In fact a player’s valuation is often taken as an indication of that player’s quality, i.e., expensive players are all good players, age considered. Is this correct?


The skills: Keeping, Tackling, Passing, Shooting go up with age, or stay the same, but never go down. The skills change once per year - at the end of the season, when the new season is being generated. Depending on whether the player is a Keeper (Keeping), Defender (Tackling), Midfielder (Passing) or Forward (Shooting) at the end of the year, they will experience an increase in this primary skill in time for the next season. Note that you can RE-TRAIN players just for a few weeks to boost weaker skills in order to make them more rounded individuals. Two other factors come into play: the lower the skill, the more it is likely to increase (ie the closer it gets to 200 the less it increases each year): also the higher your player's Agility, the more of an increase you'll get (this is theory not fact).

Many of the rules of PM are only theory by the way - they are from observed behaviour but cannot be proven. I sent Dino a list of questions about PM last year and it was clear that he remembered less that I already knew.

With the abilities: Pace, Agility, Stamina, Resilience......these start low at age 18, then increase up to the peak at about age 23, and then typically decline thereafter. Sometimes these abilities can make a comeback for a season or two in the later 20's but generally they are on a decline after 23.

The player's value is generated by a simple algorithm that sums the above out of a maximum of 200, then includes other factors such as height, weight etc. The most expensive player we have created without hacking had a value of 1704k. Players on hex-edited teams seem to have reached values of approx 1950k. My guess is that 2000k is the theoretical limit.

Please note that we have discovered a hidden statistic called Flair. This exists in KO2 but has not been proven to exist in PM. The effects of Flair are unknown but my own theory is that it merely affects the player's behaviour when it is being controlled by the AI.

Hope all of this helps.

Alkis... be sure to copy and paste all of this stuff, it can form the basis of my PM section in The Aftertouch.
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Postby waynie » Tue Dec 30, 2003 3:50 pm

So, just to clarify on the numbers side of PM, skills and attributes change depending on age, appearances and the agility score. Some change is barely seen during the season by noticeable at the end-beginning of every season

As for the stats themselves, what do they mean? Below is my interpretation…is this correct?

Skills
Keeping: if put in the goalie position, this score determines the keeping standard of the player. high score = better AI
Tackling: influences the length (time and distance) of the slide tackle when executed by an outfield player
Passing: the accuracy of a pass to another player on the same team
Shooting: the accuracy of a shot. Higher score negates possibility of shots coming off at erratic angles and heights

Attributes
Agility: Off-pitch stat that influences the fluctuations of other stats. Higher score retards adverse effects from ageing and is synergistic with stat improvements for younger players
Pace: running speed of the player
Stamina: high score reduces fatigue effects as game progresses. Significant stamina drain seen with low score
Resilience: resistance to injury when fouled
Aggression: ability to win 50/50 aerial and ground encounters. High score reduces the chances of “tripping”.
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Postby Robert Swift » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:47 pm

waynie wrote:So, just to clarify on the numbers side of PM, skills and attributes change depending on age, appearances and the agility score. Some change is barely seen during the season by noticeable at the end-beginning of every season

As for the stats themselves, what do they mean? Below is my interpretation…is this correct?

Skills
Keeping: if put in the goalie position, this score determines the keeping standard of the player. high score = better AI
Tackling: influences the length (time and distance) of the slide tackle when executed by an outfield player
Passing: the accuracy of a pass to another player on the same team
Shooting: the accuracy of a shot. Higher score negates possibility of shots coming off at erratic angles and heights

Attributes
Agility: Off-pitch stat that influences the fluctuations of other stats. Higher score retards adverse effects from ageing and is synergistic with stat improvements for younger players
Pace: running speed of the player
Stamina: high score reduces fatigue effects as game progresses. Significant stamina drain seen with low score
Resilience: resistance to injury when fouled
Aggression: ability to win 50/50 aerial and ground encounters. High score reduces the chances of “tripping”.


This is where we are into theory and not rules. These scores are not explained in the manual. Here are our learned findings:

Keeping: Hi score will stop shots without fumbling them. Low score and the ball will go through the goal keeper, or the dive will be pathetic. Keeper AI and movement not affected by this score.

Tackling: Hi score means that slide tackle is less likely to be judged a foul. Low score means that player can be pushed over in a 'Block Tackle' easily. Hi score can make players harder to push over. Time and distance of slide not a factor.

Passing: Hi score means that trap/pass will be accurate and controllable. Low score means that pass will be either inaccurate or incredibly fast/weak making it harder to control.

Shooting: Hi score means a straight kick dead ahead of the player. Low score means erratic direction. Hi score makes Keeper less able to hold the shot.

Agility, Pace, Stamina, Resilience: All as you say, although not sure that Agility prevents stat decline.

Aggression: Mystery stat, seems only to affect AI. Likely theory is that players with Hi aggression more likely to perform computer-slides. However difficult to judge as some players have 0 or 200 Aggression with little noticeable difference in on pitch behaviour.

It's also important to notice the importance or value in

Height Definitely the determining factor in performing/winning headers. Very important.

Weight Players with low weight (<60kg) can be excessively weak and easily pushed/tripped. Avoid purchase unless they have exceptional skills.

We have never been able to understand what the defining attribute is to make 'strong' vs 'weak' players. Strong players are an asset whereas weak ones are a liability. Defenders that get pushed over by the onrushing striker are virtually useless. Weight and Tackling definitely help, but some of the 'strongest' players have good rather than exceptional scores in these, so something else is involved. It's probably a hidden stat.
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Player Manager Tips

Postby nevster01 » Fri Jan 02, 2004 2:28 pm

I play the entire game result only, this is because you may be a great player with a crap team and vice versa, it doesn't give you a true relfelction on the quality of your side. It gives you the same outcome 9 times out of 10 i have noticed. I then tend to play them on KO2 (with the aid of aftertouch) but I am having problems using my USB gamepad on STEEM so haven't had the opportunity to test my recent sides out.
23 is when the players reach their peak? I normally sell players when they reach 25 as their value drops like a stone.

Is there a limit on the number of seasons which you can play or does it just keep regenerating, if this is the jase what is the oldest Alex Reeves anyone has had, mine as nearly 50!!

Agillty is the most important rating and then pace and stamina.
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Postby alkis21 » Fri Jan 02, 2004 10:48 pm

I have to ask.. if you're playing Result Only, why don't you let Alex Reeves hang up his boots? It makes no sense to me. I always play as a Team, with my Player Manager starting every game. Back in the old days I played till 2048 IIRC, which means he was 106 years old. Now I'm in year 2013, he's 51 yet still excellent at guarding the corner flag! :lolo:
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Player Manager Tips

Postby nevster01 » Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:55 pm

I need Player Manager during the early years and I tend to keep him in the squad in case of emergencies (mass injuries and suspensions) but when he reaches a certin age and I am in division 1 then I tend to hang up his boots :cry:
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Postby Robert Swift » Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:24 pm

Well, I must be different too.

I retire the PM when he is useless and the team is mainly >1000k, and then play games on Fast. There are two reasons for this. Firstly you get way too many injuries on Result Only. If your players have >160 Resilience like mine then they will/should never be getting injured in a Fast or full game. The second reason is that you get to see your tactic used on Fast.

It's very rare that one of my all >1000k teams loses a game on Fast.

But then, this is because I am building KO2 teams and am just trying to complete the season as quick as possible.

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