Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

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Torchiador
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Torchiador » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:00 pm

Bug is a bug
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Lee W
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Lee W » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:00 pm

wouldn't even know where to start!

wouldn't we need to mail all koa members for their vote? or at least make them aware of the vote and the argument for and against? so it's not just 5 or 6 who's made a comment here voting
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby r.cross » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:28 pm

Guys, go to 3:55 in that video and watch Gianni defend:



The buggy situation can be defended. Even if I and most of you can't...
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Lee W » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:31 pm

i also saw Gianni pull that off against Andy in the final... it's very impressive to say the least, but let's face it, even for Gianni, the undisputed master of this game, it's a very, very rare occurrence... which is why I say it's 99.9% a goal
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Freshmaker » Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:26 pm

The issue isn't if it's defendable or not, it's the keepers behavior.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Danny D » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:21 pm

Lee W wrote:i challenge anyone to show me a video of a goalie running off the pitch 'to take a drink' while someone puts the ball in an empty ne.


Do I get a prize ? :)
[YouTube]http://youtu.be/PT899F-8QMY?t=32[/YouTube]

http://youtu.be/PT899F-8QMY?t=32
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Lee W » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:26 pm

hehe, not exactly running off the pitch to take the drink, but a cookie to you ;)
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Steve Camber » Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Well, I guess he wandered off during a break in play, but a good find anyway :)
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Steve Camber » Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:38 am

Here's the thread about the goalie wandering off, post your thoughts.

http://ko-gathering.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17373
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Torchiador » Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:50 pm

Danny D wrote:
Lee W wrote:i challenge anyone to show me a video of a goalie running off the pitch 'to take a drink' while someone puts the ball in an empty ne.


Do I get a prize ? :)
[YouTube]http://youtu.be/PT899F-8QMY?t=32[/YouTube]

http://youtu.be/PT899F-8QMY?t=32



Fantastic!! thanks Danny
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Steve1977 » Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:31 pm

1 - Autoslide/-headers.
You've paid loads of money to go to a world cup, you're about to win the final against all the odds...Cox does a slide and the opponent scores, ends up winning the game. The opponent has won, not because of any control he did...but rather a random event that worked against you.

2 - Trapslide.
Don't like these :) Here you are trying to play tika-taka and it just seems like a bug, an artifact. It happening against you isnt anything good the opponent is doing and instead is just a random thing. (well it isnt random but you get what I mean.

3 - Prevent Kick Off Lobs
Definetly not, I'm in the minority here but I believe they take skill to do also and require you to do a measured shot. Plus if you play 5-3-2 you vastly reduce the chances of this occuring too.

4 - The Keeper Running Behind the GoalLine
Requires skill to score this goal and the keeper doesent always run behind the line plus it's defendable too.



Basically, 3 and 4 are the results of a player using his skill to create an opportunity. 1 and 2 though are random events that are not the result of skill.



Naturally I wasnt there at the world cup in Dublin, but if Trap Slides and Auto Slides were de-activated - as they were in 2011 - it should have been impossible for them to be abused.
Why? Cause Steve Camber programmed a nifty little feature in so if it was abused, if the user did hold down the fire button then for a longer than necessary time, the player would then actually do a trap slide, irrespective as to what options were chosen.
All hail Steve!! :)


Incidentally, I would just like the point out that the reason why we did have the APT menu activated in 2011 (like in 2015 I believe) was because we actually had a democratic vote. So for any new players who think we may have abused our position, we did conduct a vote on the forum :)

Before I go, we also took the time to do this also - you see, we put a lot of effort into organising things! :) (even have our own official youtube 'kick off2worldcup' channel Danny! #everythingcovered

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3UuE6vUi4s
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Torchiador » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:09 pm

Hi Steve, welcome back in discussion.

just a couple of considerations about your points.
About point 2: I read you wrote "well it isnt random but you get what I mean"

Well, I wouldn't go so lite on this: it isn't definitely not a random factor. trap slide depends exclusively by your fire button: if you don't touch your fire button, you definitely will not have slide. If you are in possession of the ball you definitely will not slide.
the crucial point is that the possession of the ball doesn't depend only on who touched last the ball: according with the deepest description we ever had about it, thanks to John Wilson. we know that if you are dribbling with the ball and you center the joystick, you have lost the possession of the ball and ball possession goes to opponent.. so, even if you are the closest player to the ball and you release the joystick for a while to keep distance between you and the ball, the opponent gets ball possession. so if you touch to fire button enter in trap mode, you will slide.
Knowing this, I know that when I'm dribbling and I release the stick for any reason, I will not touch the fire button until I touch the ball again, otherwise I will slide.
To be said that to my eyes, this is a clear bug. But, being part of the game since the beginning, although it is something difficult, I started to love it as somehow it gives an interesting adjunctive challenge and it gives a major deepness in the decision you have to take very quickly under pressure. basically a bug became gameplay. I like it, somehow think the same about PBD.
But I can agree with you that the way the possession is calculated is surely bugged.
Said that, I think that one reasons because we are still playing this game, it is because of the miraculous balance between, ART and BUGS that Dino had into writing kick off 2. surely he didn't intend to leave any bug in the game, and you can notice it in Final Whistle, where basically all the bugs we usually enjoy and hate in the game were fixed.
The point is that Final Whistle, a Kick Off without bugs, although it is perfect form a side of coding, it isn't fun. Otherwise now we would be playing Final Whistle. isn't it?

Second point. In your pants I would't come back on the Birmingham'11 vote about the freedom of choice. I think I'm not the only one to have a good memory about it. Better to let bygone be bygone.

In Birmingham it was the only world cup in KOA history in which we used a modified gameplay version of KO2 in which a Fix produced a biggest and worse side effect of the bug that the fix intended to fix.
As said rightly by you, it is clearly not your fault if the fix had that side effect. I agree with you on this.
But that event suggests me that any single change of the gameplay (like the goalkeeper stay on pitch behaviour) can have big sides effects that we initially didn't catch.
It is the Butterfly Effect.
Ok, the trapfix has been tuned now. that doesn't mean it cannot have any other sides effects on the gameplay that we cannot catch by now. Not secondary, I think that a discussion to the way to tune the trapfix (and generally it could be applied to all the fix that touches the gameplay) would have been interesting. in particular an accurate description would have been welcome. I do think Steve is a great coder but, as it happened in the first trapfix, I cannot avoid to think it can happen again.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Freshmaker » Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:20 pm

In my experience, even the modified, and current, version of the Trapfix makes a huge impact on gameplay. Let's be honest; if it didn't affect gameplay we wouldn't have this discussion... I can fully see, accept and agree with argumentation about the game seeming cleaner and more fluid with Trapfix enabled, but that's not always of the good.

And as long as there's no clear answers to wether it's a bug or not, I'm against it.
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