Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

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Steve Camber
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Steve Camber » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:40 pm

Yes, chill out, I'd happily fix the keeper behind the goal bug permanently. I am saying that Lee seems to have been the most against it I've ever known in the koa.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Freshmaker » Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:55 pm

Maybe he's being vocal about it now, but so was I a few years back.
And at that time we had the same thing happening, with picking and choosing of preferred bugs.

And I didn't find that morally right then, and I don't find it anymore morally right now. Therefore the only right thing to do is either keep or kill 'em all. That's the only way it can be done right.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Steve Camber » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:07 pm

Yet we don't want to kill them all and we don't want to fix them all. We just want to have fun :)
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Freshmaker » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:09 pm

And that's such a half assed attitude it steals fun from others.

Wich leaves me with this:

"What's the game you fell in love with, even with all is flaws?"
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Lee W » Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:31 pm

in the 25 years, on and off, i never knew this was an exploitable bug... sure, i saw it a few times in that time but we never tried to do it... but since i started playing online, i've seen it tons, possibly more than most new players... i don't find it fun, i find it the most infuriating thing i've ever known in any game and the attempts at justifying it is even more so.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby thor » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:29 am

Crap! I realize that part of my earlier post could be misinterpreted. I have edited it to remove my response to "Keep em all".

My preference is that we keep the competition version settings as they are. That is, I am in favor of no changes to the controllable gameplay, and leaving the APT rules as they have been in the World Cups.

My reasoning is still rooted in that the current CV settings do not represent a change to the controllable gameplay in the original versions, which is key in being able to prepare with an original version. As Steve points out, the "TeamN"/A=B setting is close but I can't think of a controllable move that couldn't be performed by both the old TeamA/B. Like Michael, I used to find the autoslides a fun element, but I don't mind the current competition setting since it is not something that can be controlled. And, as I wrote earlier, I think trapfix represents a significant change to controllable gameplay from the original versions, and the GK manipulations is something that can be controlled by the attacking player.

Any change to controllable gameplay and we are going down a slippery slope where there is no point of return.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Torchiador » Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:14 am

I love you all, although I hate your filthy lobs, I want them in because they are part of the gameplay. Occasionally they are good to open the defence and break the ice, to be unpredictable to my opponent is clearly a good strategy also to kick some rubbish lobs.
To cure a bit of pain I would add a cosmetic fix to put the goalkeeper 3 or 4 meters away from the goal line. just a fake. at least I could believe he cannot reach that ball and I would be in peace watching the ball entering in the net.
The goalkeeper running on the boards is clearly a bug and I don't like to see it because it is not realistic. but I like to use it, I like my opponent use it. it is fun, although Andy scored me too many of them in the finals this year!
I know Dino said it is a bug and he would have removed it. But, for the records Dino said that also PBD is a bug. well, God bless the bug! Even Dino's bug are masterpiece of coding!
Although Dino is right, I think that also the KOA "who kept his baby alive" is legitimated to say something on this matter.
So I don't believe Dino will feel offended if we prefer to keep a bug running in the game instead of to fix it.

to fix or not to fix, that is the question.

I think that all the bugs we removed so far were removed with wisdom and care. the only two real change of the gameplay went essentially for a matter of challenge in equal terms. It wasn't a matter of: "I don't like that bug" . you can have both the PBD and equality teamsA=B. thing that allowed the introduction of big leagues 1x in tournaments, AKA the possibility to face many more players in a tournament. a bliss . in the past we had to play the same players twice, and that was equal to play half of the different players. Without to mention the despicable way to use PBD and NOPBD that thanks God (and Steve Camber) it is just part of a awful past. In the gameplay we lost the challenge of handle better the teamA/teamB advantage and disadvantage. it was a compromise. Surely. But it is very different to say, "I want change the gameplay because I hate that bug"
The powers of the KOA... let me try: Lee, these aren't the bugs you are looking for..
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Freshmaker » Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:50 am

Gianni; I both agree and disagree with you.

Your focus on lobbing faults the debate. Lob-goals are not bugs. They might be flaws, they're made close to impossible in Final Whistle, but they are not bugs. A vital difference imho.
The Keeper Behind The Line IS a bug. You, Steve, Thor, anyone, can argue as much as you like; it IS A BUG. And for that simple reason it should be removed.

The fact that you, and many other players, have perfected the way you exploit this bug doesn't make it any less a bug. This fight to keep your preferred bug in the game, while removing others, just seem ridiculous to me.

And the worst part of this debate is that we're hard-headedly discussing something we've bearly even tried. Have you ever tried to play the CV with the goalie-fix enabled? I'm sure there would still be many Jawohl-goals scored.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Torchiador » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:40 am

Freshmaker wrote:Gianni; I both agree and disagree with you.

Your focus on lobbing faults the debate. Lob-goals are not bugs. They might be flaws, they're made close to impossible in Final Whistle, but they are not bugs. A vital difference imho.
The Keeper Behind The Line IS a bug. You, Steve, Thor, anyone, can argue as much as you like; it IS A BUG. And for that simple reason it should be removed.

The fact that you, and many other players, have perfected the way you exploit this bug doesn't make it any less a bug. This fight to keep your preferred bug in the game, while removing others, just seem ridiculous to me.

And the worst part of this debate is that we're hard-headedly discussing something we've bearly even tried. Have you ever tried to play the CV with the goalie-fix enabled? I'm sure there would still be many Jawohl-goals scored.


The behaviour of the goalkeeper to run out of the pitch allow you to call it bug because it isn't realistic. The behaviour of the goalkeeper let to enter a ball, standing on the white line on the precise trajectory of the ball allows me to call it bug, as much as unrealistic like the run outside the pitch.
You said the lob is not a bug because the shot doesn't enter all the times. I say that if you reproduce the precise situation (read: if you perform it in the same way with n9 or n10 who have a great accuracy and they are the players that all the players use to spoil the goalkeeper) you would score all the times. It doesn't happen always just because of very low accuracy human have using the joystick but I have seen games in which it has been score something like 18 lobs in a 10 minutes match. if it isn't a bug this... At the same way works the run outside the pitch. it doesn't happen always just because there are many more factors that influence the reproducibility of the situation, So, even if you think you are performing a perfect run to spoil the goalkeeper to run outside, he remains on the pitch instead.
In my opinion they are two equal bugs, they are perceived differently just because lobbers love to lob. and you know, love has a strange way to change things at the look of a lover.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Freshmaker » Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:46 am

We can't discuss bugs on what you or I would like to call a bug or not. I guess there are definitions to bugs. I guess Steve, Gianluca or Dino better could explain to us how you define a bug.

But historically we have had explanations showing that "goalie behind the line" is a bug, "(kick off)lobs" are not.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Lee W » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:14 pm

Gianni, i respect your opinion greatly, but facts are facts, lobs are not bugs, keepers running behind the goal is... that's fact, not opinion.

you, and all the other top players, can score tons of legit goals, i can't understand why you want to cling on to a blatant exploitation of a bug? it's wildly unfair, especially to any lesser skilled players.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Freshmaker » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:22 pm

Well put Lee.
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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Postby Torchiador » Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:24 pm

Freshmaker wrote:We can't discuss bugs on what you or I would like to call a bug or not. I guess there are definitions to bugs. I guess Steve, Gianluca or Dino better could explain to us how you define a bug.

But historically we have had explanations showing that "goalie behind the line" is a bug, "(kick off)lobs" are not.

The historical explanations to not call bug le tobs come from Lobber supporterof the early KOA days: ALkis, Steve and so on.

If you ask Gianluca he will say that the behaviour that the goalkeeper have in relation of lob is clearly a bug
If you ask Steve he will say that the behaviour that the goalkeeper have in relation of lob is clearly not a bug.
And about Dino, you don't need to ask him, just play KO2 Final Whistle.
I played it the last 20 minutes at international level. I wasn't able to score a single lob. he simply fixed the bug.

Any other questions?
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