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Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:59 pm
by Steve1977
Interesting comments Dino and it's why I don't believe having the trap fix activated in Birmingham 2016 will post an issue due to the fix that Steve Camber did. I understand Jorn's comments though that when one things changed, it can affect the other, sometimes though this can be perception.

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:14 pm
by l00k
Torchiador wrote:
Freshmaker wrote:We can't discuss bugs on what you or I would like to call a bug or not. I guess there are definitions to bugs. I guess Steve, Gianluca or Dino better could explain to us how you define a bug.

But historically we have had explanations showing that "goalie behind the line" is a bug, "(kick off)lobs" are not.

The historical explanations to not call bug le tobs come from Lobber supporterof the early KOA days: ALkis, Steve and so on.

If you ask Gianluca he will say that the behaviour that the goalkeeper have in relation of lob is clearly a bug
If you ask Steve he will say that the behaviour that the goalkeeper have in relation of lob is clearly not a bug.
And about Dino, you don't need to ask him, just play KO2 Final Whistle.
I played it the last 20 minutes at international level. I wasn't able to score a single lob. he simply fixed the bug.

Any other questions?


I did the same with TFW last night. Not a single lob. This is evolution of gameplay through bug fixing.

Could you get the goalie off the pitch?

Also accidentally did the flick up move which I forgot about.

CVS and TFW play very differently indeed. Tighter games.

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:40 pm
by Lee W
i personally feel lobs should be somewhere in between KO2 and FW... it's not realistic (if we're going down that road) to score that many lobs in a game, even if they do require a small degree of error (talking a pixel or two i imagine, plus MOST lobs do miss, I score around 2 out of 10 on average). but, lobs happen, all the time, week in week out in leagues all around the world... and given the fact it's quite impossible to score 30 yard screamer or a beautiful curling shot from outside the box into the far corner, i see lobs as a replacement for them... but, having said that, i'd also like to see the keeper actually save some... but making lobs impossible like in FW, na, that's silly in both realistic and entertainment levels.

goalie running off the pitch doesn't happen in FW or real football or any other imaginable circumstance. If it were a random bug i wouldn't care a jot about it, it'd be another quirk of the game, but the fact is that some people practice it and have perfected exploiting it to score a goal 99.9% of the time, that's why I feel so strongly about it being removed or at very least, make it an option in the APT menu that if one player ticks 'FIX' then it is out for that game. Trapfix would be nice with that automated option too as that affects both Teams greatly.

to compare the 2 though isn't right as one is a real occurrence in football, one is not... but I would be absolutely in favour of making it somewhat harder so it's more fair (but that is a whole different debate and would have to include the Benny Hill run around the box by the keeper too)

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:45 pm
by l00k
Lobs don't happen very often in the real world when the goal keeper is on his line

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:47 pm
by Freshmaker
They did in Ronald Koemans days...

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 4:53 pm
by Lee W
not very often... but still happens, computer games are there to enhance realistic situations and make them entertaining, not to simulate. I've seen plenty of games with 10+ goals on each side too, that doesn't happen very often in football either.

but the keeper doesn't come to the edge of his box like in real football so it has to compensate... lobs are legitimate goals, but like i said, i'd definitely be for tightening it up a bit if it were to go that direction

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:32 pm
by alkis21
Some interesting points in this thread. Anyway.... I'll add my two cents.

The whole "it's a bug, it's not a bug" discussion is fine as a philosophical subject, but it's useless and irrelevant when the issue is world cup rules. Think about it: If one likes something that's in the game, he's not going to want it removed, whether you call it a bug, a rodent or a mammal. So you might as well save your breath in that regard. It is well known that you, random Kick Off 2 player, deeply believe that all the goals you score are beautiful unique snowflakes, while everyone else repeatedly exploits filthy bugs. You keep believing that if it makes you feel better, but that will never give you the right to forbid goals.

There is a consensus as old as the KOA, and I'm surprised that none of the old members have mentioned it yet. It's this:

Every goal counts.

That's not some stubborn, idiotic cliché we are clinging on to. It actually took a lot of years of maturing (and yes, fighting) before we realized that it is not the best solution, it is the ONLY solution. For several reasons, but I'll stick to the two most important ones:

1. No two Kick Off players hate the same goals, and if you open Pandora's box and start forbidding goals, it's a slippery slope as people will feel entitled to ask for more. Kick off lobs, regular lobs, keeper behind the net, diagonal lobs, corner kick routines, trust me, for every goal people score, other people complain. Start going down that road and before you know it, it's going to be YOUR favorite goal that people will want to forbid.

2. Most players go to the world cup without having read a single forum post. Do you want to be the one to tell 5 new Kick Off enthusiasts who just found out about the KOA, "By the way, you can't score that goal anymore"?

Every goal in the game has been there for 25 years, it should never be removed as there are people who rely on them and incidentally, who do you think will benefit the most if you remove a standard goal or two? The top players who can score in pretty much every way imaginable, or the weaker ones? Do we really want to increase the gap between the strong and the weak?

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:58 pm
by Lee W
no one said anything about banning any type of goal Alkis

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:42 pm
by alkis21
Are you sure? I read several posts in this thread towards that direction. Like severely diminishing the chances of scoring a narrow angle goal, by stopping the 'keeper goes behind goal' situation.

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:45 pm
by Lee W
doesn't stop that goal, just makes the keeper stay where he's meant to and gives a fair chance... anyway, no point in saying anything anymore, you'll just delete the posts and claim almighty power, beyond madness dude.

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:52 pm
by alkis21
Not true, mate. :) Feel free to disagree with anything I said.

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:58 pm
by dndn1011
I'd just like to point out that the keeper going behind the goal can probably be fixed in a way that does not prevent the swerve goal.

Re: Discussion about bugfixes and enhancements for upcoming World Cups

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 12:00 am
by durban
Dino, with all due respect if you had fixed this before we started playing 20 years ago we wouldn't be in this mess :) :) ;)