My thought about the slide"bug"fixes.

[Jam King]

freshie i think u need to tone it down a little its all getting a little out of hand now, and from what i heard garry pmed u asking that it all be stopped now for everyone sake and u even got a little moody about that, well at least he tried. i read steves last post and yet again i find ur reply a little weak as u tend to pick at little things. we know u have the right to an opinion so as u keep banging on it. Gaz and ste have no problem with that i think by there posts that they are a little annoyed at how argumentative u come across thats all.

And as for my post that u did actully predictably glossed over i wasnt trying to bring anything new to the topic just wondered how someone had managed to get two of the most chilled lads i know into such a tizz and all i was asking for was an explanation as to how u keep misunderstanding their posts, and look i have even posted in the morning with not an alcohlic beverage in sight.

If im honest u put me off the forum freshie, as a mod i would have thought that u would be more constructive with ur posts as we all want the same think and that is good light hearted ko tournaments and good company. Im not saying that Garry and ste are perfect but i know first hand that they are fair and wouldnt ever try and stop someone having an opinion and as gaz tried to calm it all down a little but u wanted to carry on then with regards to u saying that u dont like heated battles then i would have serious doubts in believing this, this is not a go at u just cause their my friends at all but u are coming across as unreasonable and to be honest seriously repetitive. U do have a bad sense of timing with certain discussions and thats why it got blocked just after the world cup and as a mod then surely this isnt correct behaviour and nothing good was ever coming out of it just another heated battle that u say u didnt want.

Ste and gaz do a hell of a lot for the koa which i know u havent denied, but surely wouldnt it be benefitial to tone this down a bit and work together on the koa instead of this divide thats causing so much shit, end of the day its a computer game that us big kids still love to play and there is an option on it to allow everyone to play what they prefer, the best players like dagh, giani and alkis can play whatever they want against me in a tourney, it will make no difference to the outcome as they are all exceptional, but its just an honour to play them, i think we should just get back to enjoying ko now, i know these forums are for discussions but when it becomes damaging to the subject itself then its just wrong. A newbie reading this thread wud be instantly put off and thats not good for anyone.

[Freshmaker]

freshie i think u need to tone it down a little its all getting a little out of hand now, and from what i heard garry pmed u asking that it all be stopped now for everyone sake and u even got a little moody about that, well at least he tried. i read steves last post and yet again i find ur reply a little weak as u tend to pick at little things. we know u have the right to an opinion so as u keep banging on it. Gaz and ste have no problem with that i think by there posts that they are a little annoyed at how argumentative u come across thats all.

Just for your information JamK, I was not the one writing in capitol letters. I was not the one "yelling". How can I be the one who's gotta tone it down? What I am doing, however, is trying to answer to not 1, not 2 but 3 guys, about the same stuff. On, and on again.

Been re-reading your first post again, and find nothing in it I should dignify with an answer, more than you've got. You support your mates, as in I find your post biased. And maybe it's not just me misunderstanding posts and taking shit a little bit stiff? I know I sometimes have a hard time understanding Steve, as he writes a bit difficult for me sometimes. But Garry's big-mouthed yelling-posts is something I don't need to be able to read to understand. And yet, I'm the one who shold tone it down?

Garry's pm was not what I'd see as a proper friendly attempt at making peace. It was a clear message to me on what I should apologise for, so we could call it a truce. Not an attempt I can take seriously. The two accounts he took up I've even answered to several times.

If im honest u put me off the forum freshie, as a mod i would have thought that u would be more constructive with ur posts as we all want the same think and that is good light hearted ko tournaments and good company. Im not saying that Garry and ste are perfect but i know first hand that they are fair and wouldnt ever try and stop someone having an opinion and as gaz tried to calm it all down a little but u wanted to carry on then with regards to u saying that u dont like heated battles then i would have serious doubts in believing this, this is not a go at u just cause their my friends at all but u are coming across as unreasonable and to be honest seriously repetitive.

Sorry to hear I would put you off the forums. Not that I feel I can help anything with that. When under constant attack I defend. And once again, I haven't been yelling, I've actually been trying very hard to keep calm.

Let's see, what are the accusations?
"Slide-free campaign" - I've said that was a bit on the wrong side and that I exaggerated.
"forcing people to play with different settings" - In MY opinion, having a new vote for the next WC, after "loosing" the last vote, is not ok. I find that disrespectful and not ok. I've even clarified why. What more can I do? Lie to you and say that I find it fully respectful? Sorry, but I don't. It's a matter of opinion.

U do have a bad sense of timing with certain discussions and thats why it got blocked just after the world cup and as a mod then surely this isnt correct behaviour and nothing good was ever coming out of it just another heated battle that u say u didnt want.

Sometimes, timing's a bitch. I got "corrected" by a fellow mod, and never complained about it. On the other side, writing a post with letters in size 150 is totally acceptable?

Ste and gaz do a hell of a lot for the koa which i know u havent denied, but surely wouldnt it be benefitial to tone this down a bit and work together on the koa instead of this divide thats causing so much shit, end of the day its a computer game that us big kids still love to play and there is an option on it to allow everyone to play what they prefer, the best players like dagh, giani and alkis can play whatever they want against me in a tourney, it will make no difference to the outcome as they are all exceptional, but its just an honour to play them, i think we should just get back to enjoying ko now, i know these forums are for discussions but when it becomes damaging to the subject itself then its just wrong. A newbie reading this thread wud be instantly put off and thats not good for anyone.

Here we see eye to eye, ecxept for one thing; it's not a 1-sided thing to tone it down. As I've said, I AM toned down, I'm merely answering all the posts the 3 of you are throwing at me.

And please, read up what Alex has said in his posts on the subject. Very thoughtful posts imo.


As far as I'm concerned this has to stop now. I've re-read this entire thread several times these last days, and I stand by what I've said and done. Those things I said that was wrong, I've tried to make right. If someone wanna read their own posts and maybe they find stuff thei've been writing that maybe is a bit off, then don't bother. It's of no importance. I won't bother answering any more about this. As JamKing says, it's getting a tad repetetive.

If any mod wanna close this, then please do so. The only mods NOT closing this thread will be me and Garry. And please, if it's closed, just to show it's not me or Garry closing it, make a post stating "Topic's closed".
Thanks.

[alkis21]

I have been following this thread closely and although it is indeed a heated argument I see no reason for it to be locked. Nobody broke any rules or called anyone names. Do I understand correctly that BOTH sides want the matter closed? If you guys want to stop discussing it, just do so. You don't need moderators for that.

[Steve Camber]

What Alkis said.
This discussion's been quite tame compared to previous threads over the years. Only a pathetic 6 pages too! There have been some interesting points made, surrounded by plenty of filler. Feel free to carry on, although I'm sure there are better things to do with your free time then to get sucked into a discussion which clearly won't conclude without some friendly fire casualties. Come out from the trenches and have a kickabout on the battlefield instead.
This could have spoiled the post world cup excitement, but instead it filled the gap left by its passing.. or scared off any forum newbies.

[Jam King]

ha ha camber u make me laugh mate. im sure i suggested in my last post about working together and just enjoying the kick off.

And as far as u finding my post biased, thats untrue me gaz and ste all have our own minds and maybe are views are very alike due to the fact we play so much ko together, i wasnt being biased it is my opinion that u misunderstood their points and its also my opinion that ur totally argumentative. yes we all like to back our mates up but we are all big and ugly enough to know when a mate is wrong or a little off base and have set them straight which i know for a fact has happened recently within kobra. So please dont just dismiss my posts as being biased cause u dont agree with it. i tried to calm the situation down in my last post and suggested that maybe working together would be better but i see that would be a right ball ache. and as far as u pointing out others peoples posts, i have read them and there is some great stuff in them, but my post was aimed at ur response to mine not anyone elses. whether u choose to reply or not is up to u im not particularly bothered as i already know roughly how it would go.
The phrase pissing in the wind comes to mind.

[Bounty Bob]

Just been reading through this again as it's so entertaining! I missed a few things

Also ste suggested whether serious or not that bb could organise the world cup and then he said he could end up organising it, having the vote go against him and not wanting to play, im sorry bb but what exactly are we to do, maybe u should just sit out until its decided and then u know whether or not ur preffered options will be played or not as there seems to be no other option.

Errr, you're not supposed to do anything. The option is to let someone vote if that vote would influence participation. I think Gaz already acknowledged that this was fair enough. I thought my post would be found amusing, and I think possibly Garry and Steve saw the funny side. It would be a really shitty scenario though would't it? To organise a WC and then not play.

[Bounty Bob]

I agree it makes no sense to play mix-slide settings - has anyone ever advocated this anyway? I'm sure I've said this elsewhere but the APT menu is not designed to encourage this. APT choice allow two players to both play slide or slide free settings, and to easily make such a choice in a matter of seconds before each game. That is the choice, and in that sense, it is slide neutral.

Obviously where two players don't agree, you simply revert to the agreed tournament settings.

I've not seen a recent CV and have seen APT referred to several times. What does it stand for, what's in the menu and where does it appear in the menu flow?

[Steve1977]

Jorn, Gaz tried to resolve this argument via PM away from the forum yet you chose to wash your dirty linen out in public and far from never getting upset on a forum, i then see a tirade aimed at me littered with swearing that even cites your divorce. Stating you'v had to self moderate your post too. Geeze, respect to your comments that you hate to not get along with people because Im exactly the same but then to seemingly do the opposite on the forum deters me from going to World Cups to be honest as I hate the possibility someones putting on a false facade. Lots of others feel this way too which is why when the going gets tough on the forum, so many people leave as they simply cant be arsed.

You seem insistent on focusing on Gaz using capital letters...I think in this thread there have been many many misunderstandings and so putting some pertinent elements in Capitals with different font size to ensure any point is not missed could be construed as being sensible.
Being so dismissive of Si's posts too - the one at the top of this thread would be have superb to end on because he didnt take mine or Gaz's side, he was appealing to the KOA as a whole.

Also, far from sticking up for friends and ganging up on people, a week ago Gaz asked if I could remove a particularly provocative post to ensure the forum wasnt awash with fighting. The complete opposite of what this thread has done. Auto Slide debates are a powder keg of opinion and whilst everyone has a right to an opinion, there's a time and place for everything. Imagine if 1 day after there had been comments from the other side of the fence eh? This would have riled up lots of people and wouldnt have been healthy, just as this thread has shown.

We think there should be a vote, you dont but then to put all the other comments in there has just degenerated with every post and quite frankly, the subject of any element of Kick Off 2 has diminished with each passing post.
Our opinion isnt any better than yours and perhaps anyone hosting the world cup should just think f*ck it. I know Gianni was so sensitive about AutoSlides because he believed KOBRA was going to host the next one and force our preferences on everyone but firstly, we'r not hosting the next one and even if we did, we wouldnt force anything on anyone.


Tripod: Where you mention the public are not informed enough, I understand as I can remember being a newbie and wondering what PBD was, no wind, no lobs when these were discussed. However the KOA has always had votes on various things and whilst things like no wind and PBD toggle are no longer voted on (because these changes are now widely accepted) it's confirmed one thing...the myth of Joe Bloggs using his 1990 version for preparing is a fallacy - this version no longer exists. The will of the people changed these just as active KO2 players are suggesting a preferance for removing slides...not demanding it.

With that out the way we come to a juncture of people preferring different settings with regards to Slides. The people hosting tournaments in England (and many people in Europe too) are the ones who prefer the removal of them and from what I can see, there has no effort to readdress the balance and no effort to compromise - had this been the case then we would have seen an increase in tournaments for both slide free tournaments and slide enabled tournaments. and no...this isnt me trying to fathom out why Mark has the opinion that he does, this is me verbalising what the alternative, rosy path could have been had we discussed this sensibly and if people love the game that much they'd make as much effort to play the game as they do when posting on the forum.

So who votes for any new settings? New guys prefer the removal of auto's, some new guys dont. The original guys prefer the removal of auto's and some guys dont. The only alternative I see is to have a vote and accept the spirit of the KOA, the sportsmanship. People attend regardless or at least they should, the world cup is only another year away after all. If you dont have a vote on something and it's decided behind closed doors then surely this is a dictatorship? A small group of people inflicting their will on the many? It's upto the relevant parties to convince the voters accordingly through fair play and transparency...not by hastily organising a vote a few weeks before which had the effect of getting peoples backs up.
If the KOA decides a votes not needed then surely if 60/40 split exists it would see tournament numbers dwindle? This has proven to be incorrect - at least from one side of the fence. Id hate to see tournament numbers dwindle if slides were ever voted out because it would purport the idea that 'I'll take this, this and that from the CV' 'but not the one I convienantly dont agree with, therefore im taking my ball and going home'.

Anyways, this is me posting an opinion without targetting anyone specifically or getting personal. If anyone doesent agree with me then no worries and cya at the World Cup - but please refrain from all this propaganda stuff.

[Steve1977]

BountyBob: The tournament proposal btw wasnt restricted to the weekend.

[Bounty Bob]

BountyBob: The tournament proposal btw wasnt restricted to the weekend.

I get in from work at 7pm and it's a 2 hour drive to Birmingham, so weekdays aren't much good either.

[Steve1977]

So you cant make weeknights nor weekends. Well at least I now know you dont play KO2 because of the removal of Auto's!

[Bounty Bob]

The will of the people changed these just as active KO2 players are suggesting a preferance for removing slides...not demanding it.

I don't think anyone is demanding slides be kept either. Didn't we all agree that a vote was the fairest way?

Id hate to see tournament numbers dwindle if slides were ever voted out because it would purport the idea that 'I'll take this, this and that from the CV' 'but not the one I convienantly dont agree with, therefore im taking my ball and going home'.

I've seen the old taking my ball and going home thing posted in reference to this debate before and I don't get it. The person taking the ball stops everyone from playing, this isn't happening here and it never can unless Camber has some kind of universal kill switch in the CV! Someone not playing KO2 doesn't stop everyone else from playing.

As for the point about taking certain things from the CV and not others. The CV is a constantly evolving item with new features being added and adopted as time goes by. Therefore if the feature that someone 'conveniently don't agree with' is a recent addition, what choice does that person have other than to lump it or leave it?

As I type, I'm thinking about the title of the CV. Is Competition Version really the right name for it anymore? I think everyone can see the benefit to competition of A=B. PBD choice was a hot tomato back in the day, but for the benefit of competition it's the right thing to do. What are the benefits to a competition of having no slides? If it's the randomness of slides that's a problem, then surely other random elements of the game need to be addressed? Should there be a standard CV ref for example?

[Bounty Bob]

So you cant make weeknights nor weekends. Well at least I now know you dont play KO2 because of the removal of Auto's!

It's no co-incidence that I stopped playing Birmingham tournaments when my job no longer involved an office in the midlands.