Kick Off 2 diary

Talk about EVERYTHING related to Kick Off 1 + 2.

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alkis21
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby alkis21 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:28 am

Come on people, what discovery are you on about? This move is performed quite often by Gianni and other Italians, and it is evident in some of their videos. It is the move that made me realize the major weakness of my joystick: much like the free kick that requires a 270 degrees turn, it simply cannot be performed with my Tomahawk. It requires a joystick with very short distances that will allow you to change direction three times in a split of a second.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:19 am

Alkis, it's not directly the quick circular movement that is interesting here. Rather, the move shown is unique in its combination of three factors:

1) Dribbling towards the keeper with deliberate ball height so that the keeper stays on the goal line.
2) Continuing straight towards the keeper in anticipation of a premature dive resulting simply from us dribbling towards him with enough ball height.
3) Exploiting a split second window that allows us to make a "height trap" just as the keeper dives.

The 720 rotation from distance and the dribble into goal after the trap just underscore the deliberate nature of the move (as apposed to it being a peculiar freak incident).

There is only one goal in the Milan videos with a dribble + dive + trap + dribble similar to this, except the ball is not dribbled into goal in that one, and the initial dribble there would not have worked with NOPBD.

Of course, goals similar to these and variations over them have been scored many times before, but the analysis and demonstration of how to deliberately trigger the incident is interesting nevertheless, no?
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby alkis21 » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:58 am

I see what you mean now. I thought you were focusing on the 270 degrees move.

1) Dribbling towards the keeper with deliberate ball height so that the keeper stays on the goal line.


This is what one takes advantage of when one scores the side line walk goal (first three goals of this video).
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:33 pm

alkis21 wrote:
1) Dribbling towards the keeper with deliberate ball height so that the keeper stays on the goal line.


This is what one takes advantage of when one scores the side line walk goal (first three goals of this video).

Thanks, excellent point!
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Torchiador » Sat Sep 26, 2009 11:26 pm

dnielsen wrote:
alkis21 wrote:
1) Dribbling towards the keeper with deliberate ball height so that the keeper stays on the goal line.


This is what one takes advantage of when one scores the side line walk goal (first three goals of this video).

Thanks, excellent point!

The first time I saw the Dagh's video my mind went directly on the Alkis' bye line goal as the first thing that I though is that kinds of goals are related each other. Of course the height of the ball has a role over the goalkeeper behaviour and I had knowledge about this, what impress me is the way in which Dagh is able to reverse engineer and understand what happens on the pitch!
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:25 pm

From some recent online games: A couple of pinball goals for Kostas, and a little 442 surprise weapon for Rodolfo ;-)

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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Kostas O » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:40 am

Thank you Dagh!
About the fluke, do you think that it would go in if the attacker wasn't there to almost get the ball?
I think not. So it is a football fluke not a KO one.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:50 pm

Kostas O wrote:About the fluke, do you think that it would go in if the attacker wasn't there to almost get the ball?


It's a great question. I talked with Jacob about it the other day. It's at least conceivable that keeper behaviour is influenced by the presence and behaviour of the attackers nearby, though I personally remain unconvinced.

Btw, here is another fluke goal, by Logos, where it really seems like the keeper is "tricked" because he anticipates an attacker is about to take the ball:




Dino Dini obviously was inspired by Pele when he programmed this feature into the game:



:lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by dnielsen on Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby gdh82 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:09 pm

dnielsen wrote:
Kostas O wrote:About the fluke, do you think that it would go in if the attacker wasn't there to almost get the ball?


It's a great question. I talked with Jacob about it the other day. It's at least conceivable that keeper behaviour is influenced by the presence and behaviour of the attackers nearby, though I personally remain unconvinced.



Nice clips Dagh and interesting discussion fellas. My instinct is that the keeper is somehow 'put off' by the nearby striker. Maybe the keeper code is expecting the nearest striker to shoot and meanwhile the shot rolls in ? :lol: A la Pele :)
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:28 pm

We can also analyse the Logos goal from a ball height angle. As the ball hits the ground near the penalty spot, the keeper leaves his goal, since the ball is low enough. Then the ball bounces up in the air again, and the keeper begins to run back. But, due to the speed of the ball, the keeper is unable to catch up with it.

We can use this keeper behavior to score some nice walk of shames. :P

The idea is to wait for the keeper, and only then add height to the ball (unlike when we do the "trap of shame", where we add height to the ball while the keeper is still on the line). Once we add height, the keeper begins to run back towards his goal, and with luck, we will have just enough dribble speed to get past him so that when the keeper is finally triggered to run for the ball again or make a dive, it is too late. We juggle the ball past the keeper, so to speak. :P A few examples in this little video:



One part of the equation is the rules that decide when the keeper is triggered to make a dive. In the 442 fluke I posted above, there is no ball height to cheat the keeper. On the other hand, maybe the ball just has just the right amount of speed for it to cheat the keeper. The keeper runs for the ball, but he is not fast enough to catch it in his chosen path. At the same time, the ball is maybe not fast enough to trigger a dive which would save the ball. We often see that these flat fluke goals come from shots from like 15 meters away from the penalty area, and I think this goes well in hand with the idea of the shots depending on the ball having a certain sweet spot amount of speed.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Kostas O » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:44 pm

It looks like you were using plastic or wind, is that correct?
The most flukes i remember are like the first one, a curly shot from far away the post that never get too high from the ground.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:59 pm

Kostas O wrote:It looks like you were using plastic or wind, is that correct?


Sacrilege! I am not quite sure if you mean the logos goal, or in the video I just made, but it was normal pitch and no wind in both instances. The juggling goals were made with NOPBD -- they are also possible, but tougher, with PBD (the ball has less dribbling speed).

The flat fluke shots from far away are indeed a lot of fun. I remember Gianni made one against me in Luton, and there was this cool thing about it, he had an attacker about to receive the ball, but as he wiggled his player, the ball went past it, past Fisher, and into goal. Gianni made a mumbling sound right about as the ball went past his player, and it was unclear if it was a curse for missing the reception, or something like "no, the path is good!". If the latter, it was truly an incredible moment!

We recorded the fluke I posted as it seems rare. Usually, the ball comes "across" the goal, as in, it goes horizontally from one side to the other, ending at the far post. While in this goal, it is a shot for the near post. Possibly, the latter have a much more narrow window of success.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Torchiador » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:42 am

dnielsen wrote:The flat fluke shots from far away are indeed a lot of fun. I remember Gianni made one against me in Luton, and there was this cool thing about it, he had an attacker about to receive the ball, but as he wiggled his player, the ball went past it, past Fisher, and into goal. Gianni made a mumbling sound right about as the ball went past his player, and it was unclear if it was a curse for missing the reception, or something like "no, the path is good!". If the latter, it was truly an incredible moment!

the second one that you said! :) it is a sort of flat shot with a full load of aftertouch 30-35 meters from the goal and it is recognizes as a lob :) from the Camber's code. Usually I score that kind of goal with Barber and 424. I guess that this goal is strongly related to the final angle of incidence of the ball towards the goal. in fact many times Fischer isn't able to catch the ball when it doesn't come from a "standard" direction. it isn't rare that Scott, Simpson or Barrett score vertical shots without the use of aftertouch as they kick the ball in a nasty way and the ball direction is between a diagonal shot and a vertical shot.
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