Kick Off 2 diary

Talk about EVERYTHING related to Kick Off 1 + 2.

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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:35 am

Steve Camber wrote:
Furthermore, this 2nd player will not count for players available for proper passes.

I've just spent 10 minutes looking for this in the code, but I can't see it! A table is generated for the closest player in all 8 directions, and when you choose a direction to pass the ball, this table is referred to. No mention of the "2nd player" being discounted. Another mystery to solve when I get the time :wink:


Cool! Btw, I should probably note that I may have simplified things a bit above. One thing to investigate:

When the "2nd player" closes in on the ball, he sometimes stops and keeps a distance to the ball, like 3-5 meters (I haven't investigated what exactly decides if he will run all the way to the ball). We can say that the player has reached the "waiting zone".

It may be that it is only once the "2nd player" has reached this "waiting zone" that he is discounted for passes.

Anyway, you can witness the phenomenon by going into the practice pitch. Trap and try to pass to the closest player ("the 2nd player"). Usually, another player will be passed to (and if the 2nd player does receive the pass, it is usually just because he was on the path between the passer and the actually intended receiver).
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:21 pm

gdh82 wrote:Its my impression but I could be wrong that players have tended to move from NOPBD to PBD and not in the other direction ? Maybe Dagh's setting a new precedent here or at least in the minority ?


If I am not mistaken, Spyros entered the KOA as a PBD player, but then quickly decided to convert to NOPBD and has stuck with it until this day.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Abyss » Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:27 pm

dnielsen wrote:
gdh82 wrote:Its my impression but I could be wrong that players have tended to move from NOPBD to PBD and not in the other direction ? Maybe Dagh's setting a new precedent here or at least in the minority ?


If I am not mistaken, Spyros entered the KOA as a PBD player, but then quickly decided to convert to NOPBD and has stuck with it until this day.


That's true. I had only played the Oracle version till joining the KOA (a month before WC2002), but when I've been told that it was a pirated version and that Steve Screech was attending the WC, I thought it was only ethical to change, out of respect. It had nothing to do with a gameplay advantage, but I never liked the ball running behind me in the box to be honest.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:25 pm

Kick Off 2 tip of the day:

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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Tue Sep 01, 2009 3:32 pm

I just made a suggestion of a JFF mode in the KO2CV thread about disabling trapping.

Trapping is of course one of the elements that make KO2 the great game that it is. But it is also a two-edged sword, in a sense. By aiming to trap the ball to increase control and start a new movement, you reduce the need for precision. You just have to hit the ball with the player, and boom, the ball is trapped and centered on the player.

The stop'n'go is a crucial technique in KO2. You trap ball, center joystick, release fire-button, and then embark on a new move with the player. The first time I really saw this technique in action was in Copenhagen Open '91 (viewtopic.php?f=12&t=10915&start=13#p248930). After that, I went home and practiced it myself. Over time, this counter-intuitive stop'n'go becomes second nature, and then it ends up being easier to control the ball (due to the reduced need of precision) than if you only used changes in movement paths to control the ball.

I think only a select few discovered this stop'n'go technique on their own, and all the rest of us likely had a sensation of amazement the first times we saw it. I found it interesting when I noted that as strong a player as Klaus L didn't really use the technique much in his first WC. He was very strong anyway, due to an amazing level of precision, so that he could control the ball well anyway. Paolo, a new player debuting in KOA in the recent Milan tournament, also didn't use it, if I recall correctly. He now has the luxury of investigating a whole new world within KO2 for the first time, with all the excitement that that entails.

I also noticed that Kostas O, of recent Greek Championship fame, didn't use it when we played a few online games. I commented upon it, and tried to advertise the technique by saying something like "every time you trap the ball, you have like a blank page of options!". But Kostas was not easily convinced, and said that he likes KO2 as somewhat of a pinball game.

Anyway, once you are used to the technique, and then realize that you in part use it as a crotch to reduce the need for precision, you can begin to wonder if you have thus somehow neglected to maintain your movement precision. So this gives some motivation to the JFF suggestion. Also, it gives us a possibility to truly experience and enjoy KO2 as a pinball game, so that we can see the game the way Kostas sees it. The ultimate mode to practice movement technique is of course to play without joystick button at all. My record against the CPU was 4-0 when I practiced a bit in this way before the Athens WC, but I am sure that that record can be easily beaten.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Kostas O » Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:31 pm

Somebody called my name!
I really enjoy the game as i learnt it. The Sensible hype destroyed my progress in the game back in the days. Now i am too old, too stubborn or too lazy to incorporate such a huge element in my game.
I know that this cripples it and i try to change that but it's not easy. On the other hand i really enjoy the pinball like effect and the fast pace so i am usually sucked into it and the will to change goes down the drain!
I think the most important aspect of trapping is the manipulation of the opponent's players and the control of the pace. These things fascinate me when i see them but i really can say if i will ever be able to do them.
Btw Bruce's advice is probably the only way.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:29 am

Kostas, don't worry man, there is nothing wrong with pinball KO2. On the contrary, when things just click... I scored this goal the other night against Logos, and its pinball like nature made me almost jump with joy.

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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Kostas O » Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:24 am

Really nice one!
The fact that you didn't try to score with Nicholls made all the difference.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:10 am

I recently found this little Danish KO2 fan site:

http://home13.inet.tele.dk/lisbjerg/

It has an amusing layout!

The site documents the activities of a little KO2 group from some years ago. I have gotten in touch with the guy behind, so it is not impossible that we can have some new Danish blood in future tournaments up here. :P
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Kostas O » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:51 am

It is amazing. It would be great if they came here. After all these years it will be like getting in a time warp.
I quote "Vi has a theory about Team B is not as strong as Team A".

"Man må ikke løbe direkte frem og lobbe bolden over målmanden når man gi'r bolden op - ellers er det lovligt."
Dagh, in the regulations section i found this and it's all greek to me! Can you translate cause the translator meshed up.
It says something about banning a certain way to score.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby dnielsen » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:18 am

Kostas O wrote:It is amazing. It would be great if they came here. After all these years it will be like getting in a time warp.
I quote "Vi has a theory about Team B is not as strong as Team A".

"Man må ikke løbe direkte frem og lobbe bolden over målmanden når man gi'r bolden op - ellers er det lovligt."
Dagh, in the regulations section i found this and it's all greek to me! Can you translate cause the translator meshed up.
It says something about banning a certain way to score.


OK, the meaning of the first part you quoted was easy enough. They write, in Danish:

"Alle skal spille mod alle. Både som Team A & Team B. (Vi har en teori om Team B ikke er ligeså nærkamps-stærk som Team A - og det holder...)"

Translated:

Everybody plays against everybody. Both with Team A and with Team B. (We have a theory that Team B is not as melee strong as Team A - and it holds...)"

Here, melee is not quite an appropriate translation, but it is what google gives. "nærkamp" rather means something like a physical 1-on-1 challenge.

The additional comment "og det holder..." literally translated means "and it holds", and when we say it, we mean that it indeed holds true, as in, we make a claim, and if you were to doubt us and check it, you would find out that we are right.


The second part:

"Man må ikke løbe direkte frem og lobbe bolden over målmanden når man gi'r bolden op - ellers er det lovligt."

means:

"One is not allowed to run straight ahead and lob the ball over the keeper when you have a kick off - apart from that, it [lobs] is legal."

Btw, this is an example of one of the things I find amusing with KO2 and our community, as a gathering of a lot of sub-communities: People have often developed similar rules independantly of each other, and this demonstrates that we have enjoyed and interpreted KO2 in similar ways. If I remember correctly, Nikos and his friends way back then developed a rule/fair play dictate identical to this one, and it has been discussed and pondered over also several times in the KOA. And, as an amusing aside, some guy simply commented in a KO2 Facebook group or in reply to a youtube video: "Lob from the middle!", as a way to try and share memories with fellow kickoffers.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby kofoed » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:05 am

also this:
"Ønsker til Dino Dini til næste Kick Off (Jeg ved der findes både en Kick Off 3 og en Kick Off extra time, men ingen af dem har samme gameplay):
-Spillere med gult kort får gult hår. (så er det nemmere at se hvem der allerede har et gult kort)
-Fjerne buggen som gør man mister sin udskiftning, hvis en spiller bliver skadet efter man har bedt om en udskiftnin
-Kamp-statistik - skud, redninger, hjørner, frispark, kort osv.

"Wishes/Suggestions to Dino Dini for the next Kick Off(I know there is both Kick Off 3 and Kick Off Extra time but neither has the same gameplay):
-Players with a yellow card gets yellow hair (to make it easier to see who is already booked)
-Remove the substitution bug (when a player gets injured after you have requested a substitution)
-Match statistics - shots, saves, corners, free kicks, card etc."

They don't know about Camber, yet.
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Re: Kick Off 2 diary

Postby Logos » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:21 am

Thanks for the translation Jacob and Dagh.

Dagh, how the hell did you find this website? Google search?

Are you trying to emulate your ancestors by exploring the furthest reaches of cyberspace to find new kO2 civilisations?

It's uncanny and telling how the same debates and conclusions are drawn upon the game through independant communities.

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