Improvements before the next WC

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Bounty Bob
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Bounty Bob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:06 pm

JamesHBeard wrote:Only BBOB has threatened to quit playing KOA tournaments that use autoslides.
I've threatened nothing. All I said was I don't want to play a certain way. However, I do want auto slides, so your statement was arse about face anyway. :lol:
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby JamesHBeard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:16 pm

Bounty Bob wrote:
JamesHBeard wrote:Only BBOB has threatened to quit playing KOA tournaments that use autoslides.
I've threatened nothing. All I said was I don't want to play a certain way. However, I do want auto slides, so your statement was arse about face anyway. :lol:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
OK I got my words all mangled.. fair enough..

But you did say you would not attend KOA events that have autoslides disabled.. maybe that is not a threat.. more a statement of intent.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Bounty Bob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:18 pm

Exactly. :D
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Rodolfo » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:47 pm

alkis21 wrote:... but note that it *will* severely handicap my game. As many of you know, I depend a lot on winning the first header after a kick off or keeper kick, I have made this a major feature of my KO philosophy. Therefore, I'm sorry to say I'm against it.


It is so very refreshing when someone gives a realistic and truth opinion considering his own interests. Really, that is what counts. Instead of pretending to save the KOA, as many others have claimed in many others thread throug KOA history (I do not imply at all Dagh is doing so in this particular case, btw).
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Troglos » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:24 pm

Rodolfo I think is clear that when there is a suggestion of a new feature, the best way is to consider positive and negative effects and discuss it.
Consequently is natural that a negative aspect could be immagined easily by a player that see a modification of its gameplay.
If I play in a generic way, all the features in the wish list are awesome without any problem :) . If a player know KO2 deeply and is able to practice it taking the advantage that the program offer (I'm not talking about bugs), probably could understand what problems a new hypothetical features introduce.
Don't see the discussion only for to defend the little personal territory.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Steve Camber » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:34 pm

I've made the change here. It's very simple. Straight away it feels great to use - Press the fire button for the keeper to kick the ball, or just wait for him to throw out to a defender. Somebody should have suggested this to Dino years ago ;)

Of course it still requires a JFF menu option and the immediate backpass prevention Dagh mentioned.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Bounty Bob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:04 pm

Steve Camber wrote:Of course it still requires a JFF menu option and the immediate backpass prevention Dagh mentioned.
Surely this can be self policed. If someone tries constantly running back to the keeper, then their opponent just yells, 'WANKER'. This will then be the signal for all tournament players to come and stand behind the offender shouting, 'WANKER', at them. If they pull this stunt more than once, then it shall be announced on the forum and they can be banned from competition. :D
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby gdh82 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:15 pm

Bounty Bob wrote:Surely this can be self policed. If someone tries constantly running back to the keeper, then their opponent just yells, 'WANKER'. This will then be the signal for all tournament players to come and stand behind the offender shouting, 'WANKER', at them. If they pull this stunt more than once, then it shall be announced on the forum and they can be banned from competition. :D


:lol: :lol: :lol:

There you go Bbob - even if you wont play with some of these settings - you've just given yourself a useful role to play and reason for attending anyway! :wink:
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby gdh82 » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:44 pm

JamesHBeard wrote:I am not sure about this keeper idea.. I think it is a cunning plan to allow a person with a routine move from the goal kick to be able to get access to their routine all the time.. instead of only when the computer decides to roll the ball out instead of kicking it..


alkis21 wrote:I do not believe that Dagh has some selfish reasons to request this or that he wishes to favor his game.


I meant to post this the other night after watching the videos but didn't get around to it. I'm sure I'm not the only one to notice that Dagh regularly uses a KO routine that involves passing backwards to his rightback (who understandably is substituted for someone who can kick straighter!). I might be wrong but this routine appears to lend itself to keeper throw-outs ?

I say this merely as an observation and not as any kind of accusation. Besides, as Dagh's already said, routine goals are already a big part of KO2, and like Alkis always maintains, its up to all for us to find better a defence against them anyway.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Abyss » Fri Nov 21, 2008 1:24 pm

gdh82 wrote:Besides, as Dagh's already said, routine goals are already a big part of KO2, and like Alkis always maintains, its up to all for us to find better a defence against them anyway.


Well, 12 defences to be more precise
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Torchiador » Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:39 pm

dnielsen wrote:
Either way, we already have several established keeper-kick routines (just look at the big-screen games from this WC, many of the goals in these games started with the goal-keeper kicking, for example a header from 8 to 10 and shot to 9 and goal).

My impression is that play from a throw is more diverse than from a kick. You receive the ball in the defense, and you will probably kick it forward. But that kick will have some randomness to it (much more than keeper-kicks). It may also be preceded by dribbles whose direction may depend on the opponent's movements, and this can decide if you kick straight or diagonally. Once the ball reaches the mid-line, the state of play can thus depend on many previous decisions from both players + some randomness.

About the big screen I've seen 2 legs final and here there are the results:

First leg:
GOAL KICK Dagh: 15, Goal scored (1)
GK Gianni: 8(1)

Second leg:
GK Dagh: 12,(1)
GK Gianni: 11(1)


Dagh: % Goal Kick Routine: 27(1) 3%
Gianni GKR: 19(2) 10%
Final % Goal Kick Routine 46(3) 6%

It means that the 94% of the goal kicks didn't give goal scored.
This stats means that we are absolutely unfit for Kick off 2.
Or maybe that Goal Kick routines are predictable. So those are avoidable in the most of the cases.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Kostas O » Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:19 pm

gdh82 wrote:who understandably is substituted for someone who can kick straighter!

Garry, Curtis is substituted for someone who can run after 20 seconds in play. Of course the nice shooting doesn't hurt too!
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Torchiador » Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:14 am

Alkis wrote:I depend a lot on winning the first header after a kick off or keeper kick, I have made this a major feature of my KO philosophy. Therefore, I'm sorry to say I'm against it.


Delicate question.
As Alkis pointed out, a slight tweak of the game play like that one might have big repercussions in the game, since we are speaking about a game in which we can score a goal in 4 seconds and the most of the things are decided by timing.

Dagh wrote:My impression is that play from a throw is more diverse than from a kick. You receive the ball in the defense, and you will probably kick it forward. But that kick will have some randomness to it (much more than keeper-kicks). It may also be preceded by dribbles whose direction may depend on the opponent's movements, and this can decide if you kick straight or diagonally. Once the ball reaches the mid-line, the state of play can thus depend on many previous decisions from both players + some randomness.

For sure it is a fair thought.
But I know players who are used to start from a gaol keeper pass, then they wait that the opponent defence go up (due to KO2 tactics engine) so they play on the wing and in just 2 pass they finish with a diagonal lob with weak opposition. Fortunately it doesn't happen so often that the goalkeeper pass the ground ball .
With that kind of goal keeper pass enable every time, they would get benefit.
So, even if the Dagh idea is good for me, I believe that such change might unbalance the game play.
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