Improvements before the next WC

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dnielsen
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby dnielsen » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:57 am

Steve Camber wrote:I'd like to implement this goalie feature as JFF option. On paper it seems a great game design improvement, so the sooner we try it out, the better.


Thanks a lot! I almost feel embarrassed now :)
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby JamesHBeard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:15 am

I am not sure about this keeper idea.. I think it is a cunning plan to allow a person with a routine move from the goal kick to be able to get access to their routine all the time.. instead of only when the computer decides to roll the ball out instead of kicking it..

It is just going to end up in goal kick routines, much the same as there are those much hated, kick off routines.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby dnielsen » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:40 am

JamesHBeard wrote:I am not sure about this keeper idea.. I think it is a cunning plan to allow a person with a routine move from the goal kick to be able to get their routine all the time.. instead of only when the computer decides to roll the ball out instead of kicking it..

It is just going to end up in goal kick routines, much the same as there are kick off routines.


That's an interesting question.

Either way, we already have several established keeper-kick routines (just look at the big-screen games from this WC, many of the goals in these games started with the goal-keeper kicking, for example a header from 8 to 10 and shot to 9 and goal).

My impression is that play from a throw is more diverse than from a kick. You receive the ball in the defense, and you will probably kick it forward. But that kick will have some randomness to it (much more than keeper-kicks). It may also be preceded by dribbles whose direction may depend on the opponent's movements, and this can decide if you kick straight or diagonally. Once the ball reaches the mid-line, the state of play can thus depend on many previous decisions from both players + some randomness.

It's funny that you suspect that this is all a cunning plan to favor some secret routine moves. My thinking was that keeper-kicks always lead to the same identical situations and routines, while throws allow players to express themselves more freely and creatively :P

Btw, if Steve implements this as JFF and it is well received, we can begin to speculate if we also want to introduce this control-scheme to goal-kicks :lol:
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Bounty Bob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:53 am

Surely this is as much of an improvement as removing slides? Sometimes your players randomly slide, sometimes the keeper randomly throws. We've made the slides predictable, so why not keeper throws? Taking out the random slides has already enhanced the likelihood of a routine to succeed because nothing unexpected will happen, there's no difference here.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby JamesHBeard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:34 am

Bounty Bob wrote:Surely this is as much of an improvement as removing slides? Sometimes your players randomly slide, sometimes the keeper randomly throws. We've made the slides predictable, so why not keeper throws? Taking out the random slides has already enhanced the likelihood of a routine to succeed because nothing unexpected will happen, there's no difference here.


So this would be another reason for you to stop attending future KO2 events if this was instigated?
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Bounty Bob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:21 pm

Like I said, no difference. :D
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby JamesHBeard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:23 pm

Bounty Bob wrote:Like I said, no difference. :D


Ah so that means YES then..

So just for everonye to be aware.. If this keeper change came into effect, bountybob will NOT be playing ko2 in any future KOA event that has this option configured.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Troglos » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:45 pm

James you will continue to play in tournament if the newest options will not be configured ?

At least, BBob will be able to partecipate a pentangular tournament with me and other 4 italians :lol:
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby JamesHBeard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:12 pm

Troglos wrote:James you will continue to play in tournament if the newest options will not be configured ?

At least, BBob will be able to partecipate a pentangular tournament with me and other 4 italians :lol:


I will be playing in many tournaments my friend. Nexst year as a minimum I will play at the UK Champs and 12ish Newent events.. hopefully visit Garrys place at least once and maybe a trip to London to play in one of those swift organised elite events..

Only BBOB has threatened to quit playing KOA tournaments that use autoslides.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby alkis21 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:16 pm

I didn't want to participate in this discussion, however I couldn't help overhearing what you're saying because I was intentionally eavesdropping.

The "keeper throw" feature sounds a lot like the one I had suggested (and eventually made it to the game) for Kick Off 2002. Unlike other suggestions, I do not believe that Dagh has some selfish reasons to request this or that he wishes to favor his game. However, I can't help but note that it *will* severely handicap my game. As many of you know, I depend a lot on winning the first header after a kick off or keeper kick, I have made this a major feature of my KO philosophy. Therefore, I'm sorry to say I'm against it.

And before you all sing the "Alkis is afraid of all changes" song, I would like to repeat my two main suggestions:

1) I would like us to be able to rearrange the positions of the players on the pitch after a red card

2) I believe we should finally fix one of the most serious bugs in Kick Off 2: When a player is down after a tackle, if no foul is given then that player should NOT have control; control should be given to a different player. I find it extremely annoying when I have to wait for the ball to move to a different area to continue playing because the player I'm controlling is down. It is even more annoying when one player of each team is down and you have to wait for 5 seconds for one of them to get up before continuing playing.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby JamesHBeard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:49 pm

alkis21 wrote:2) I believe we should finally fix one of the most serious bugs in Kick Off 2: When a player is down after a tackle, if no foul is given then that player should NOT have control; control should be given to a different player. I find it extremely annoying when I have to wait for the ball to move to a different area to continue playing because the player I'm controlling is down. It is even more annoying when one player of each team is down and you have to wait for 5 seconds for one of them to get up before continuing playing.


This change to the game engine would be fantastic... Please Steve.. fix this annoying "The way Dino intended it" design feature.
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Steve Camber » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:52 pm

Don't worry Jim and Alkis, fixing now...
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Re: Improvements before the next WC

Postby Bounty Bob » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:02 pm

JamesHBeard wrote:
Bounty Bob wrote:Like I said, no difference. :D


Ah so that means YES then..

So just for everonye to be aware.. If this keeper change came into effect, bountybob will NOT be playing ko2 in any future KOA event that has this option configured.
You do read things a funny way James.

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