Randomness in KO2

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Steve Camber
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Randomness in KO2

Postby Steve Camber » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:32 pm

Here's something I thought about over the weekend. Just how random is KO2?


Here's a list of 1024 sequentially generated values. I used a Wii for this :) Nice and random.

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Here's a list of 1024 sequential generated values produced by the KO2 random number generator. The game reads it like a book, left to right, top to bottom. There are horizontal streaks visible, this will produce runs of "good or bad luck". This is not intentional, just a side effect of a "cheap but quick" random number generator, quite normal in games of this era.

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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby JamesHBeard » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:41 pm

Clearly, the "RANDOMNESS" in KO2 needs to be randomised...
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby Steve Camber » Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:47 pm

JamesHBeard wrote:Clearly, the "RANDOMNESS" in KO2 needs to be randomised...

No, it's just an explanation for how Robert didn't make the top 8 ;)
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby JamesHBeard » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:14 pm

Steve Camber wrote:
JamesHBeard wrote:Clearly, the "RANDOMNESS" in KO2 needs to be randomised...

No, it's just an explanation for how Robert didn't make the top 8 ;)


Surely.. "Cause he is shit" is a better explanation for that. :lol: :lol: :lol:

He is always sooooo lucky whenever he defeats me..
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby Kostas O » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:47 pm

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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby Torchiador » Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:41 pm

Really interesting! it explanes how some times happens that team B wins 10 coin toss in a row! and many other things.
Please don't fix it, at least wait for my streak of 8 world cups in a row is closed!
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby Torchiador » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:02 am

Joking aside, I think that it is a very good theme. Sometimes happens that Maurizio says:"funziona tutto storto" -everithing is going wrong-
Sometimes *seems* that your goal keeper don't save anything and the opponent goal keeper stop every shot.
Sometimes *seems* that we have to win the Amiga before to win the opponent and I'm quite sure that all of you had that bad feeling.
Now we know that it wasn't a bad feeling, but it was actually happening that we were in the bad random streak.
The fact that in a KO2 match, the weak player benefits of this kind randomness on the strong player is irrefutable.
But in a tight match with player at the same level, this kind of randomness is absolutely decisive.
In my opinion the Wii random generator would be better, but I think it isn't the common opinion of the KOA, at least from what I saw at the last WC poll, where the most of us voted for the randomness of A-Slides.

What do you think about it?
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby Kostas O » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:38 am

Well i don't have strong feelings about the autoslide thing and wouldn't care much if i were without them, but when i am i somehow miss the foolness! Anyway i take it like a part of the way players are controlled.
We had tournaments without them in Athens and people didn't notice (we are such noob) nor cared.
However Panayotis seems to have pretty strong feelings against them since the last WC. :lol:
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby dnielsen » Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:24 pm

Torchiador wrote:Joking aside, I think that it is a very good theme. Sometimes happens that Maurizio says:"funziona tutto storto" -everithing is going wrong-
Sometimes *seems* that your goal keeper don't save anything and the opponent goal keeper stop every shot.
Sometimes *seems* that we have to win the Amiga before to win the opponent and I'm quite sure that all of you had that bad feeling.
Now we know that it wasn't a bad feeling, but it was actually happening that we were in the bad random streak.
The fact that in a KO2 match, the weak player benefits of this kind randomness on the strong player is irrefutable.
But in a tight match with player at the same level, this kind of randomness is absolutely decisive.
In my opinion the Wii random generator would be better, but I think it isn't the common opinion of the KOA, at least from what I saw at the last WC poll, where the most of us voted for the randomness of A-Slides.

What do you think about it?


Maybe the random generator is called so often that "un-random" streaks will always be evenly and randomly distributed among the two teams? I think the random generator is called at every pass and every shot, and not only once, but like 5 times, so I would think that these "un-random" streaks quickly drown in the ocean of general action!?
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby Torchiador » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:22 pm

Good point.
Anyway in my experience, we had a streak of 20 coin toss won by team A (playing the whole games so the random engine was used enough time between the coin tosses) and many times we had many long streaks of Wet or Plastic pitch (usually we play our friendlies on random pitch, forcing normal pitch just one month before the world cup), so much that we really felt lucky the little times we found 4 different pitches in 4 coin toss)
And, about in game situations, I saw streaks of very long goal kick (up+fire button) and streaks of short goal kick (up+ fire button again).
I don't know if there is a sort of flag for every random situation and it is called every time that the random generator is called at duty. maybe that Steve can help us, finding something new inside the code...
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby dnielsen » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:33 pm

KO2 is messing with your mind, Gianni! :lol:

Steve, do you remember that idea about "requesting" a random call so as to get the next random state in that amazing graphic of yours? Like, "press this key for a random call". I think this feature would work well to mess up our minds even more now!

PS. If you make it, make it JFF please, or we will see many battles between superstitious hammerings of this key during games :lol:
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby Torchiador » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:42 pm

dnielsen wrote:KO2 is messing with your mind, Gianni! :lol:

Dagh, it is years that my brain is burned out! :D
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Re: Randomness in KO2

Postby gdh82 » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:50 pm

Torchiador wrote:Sometimes *seems* that your goal keeper don't save anything and the opponent goal keeper stop every shot.
Sometimes *seems* that we have to win the Amiga before to win the opponent and I'm quite sure that all of you had that bad feeling.


I agree but likewise I can have games when everything goes in and I can win a match without even trying!!! (admittedly, this isn't very often! :( :lol: )

I know this thread's not about autoslides but in passing I not so sure that those who votes against autoslides were simply voting for randomness. Its impossible to say for sure but I'd guess some were voting for familarity more than anything, some because they felt it favoured their game, some because they felt the vote was too rushed etc etc

Imho I think its hard to say randomness favours one group of players over another. You could say that top players are so consistent that their high skill levels are more likely to overcome any 'bad luck randomness'. Lesser players may get 'lucky' now and then but their lack the skills mean they're less likely to make the most out of that luck.

Despite what people might think I too think that the 'randomness' of KO2 is very appealing - to an extent anyway. You could say there are different degrees of randomness. At one end, you've got random pitch and random wind - crude but creates the biggest variation between games. Not quite so extreme but still crude you've got autoslides. Then at the more subtle end of the spectrum, you've got the complex interactions of all the player attributes, keeper behaviour, refereeing decisions, ball physics etc etc, that create a randomness which really adds to the depth of the gameplay imo.
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