Slide Tackle Logic Explained

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John Wilson
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby John Wilson » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:09 pm

Bounty Bob wrote:In the first example, it looks like the joystick direction indicator disappears briefly. In the second example, the arrow definitely seems to be on the whole time.


...most of these examples look like the 'other' unintended slide tackle (the one from Explanation No. 1 - The Unintended Slide when nobody else is anywhere near the ball). i.e. the player just lets the ball run free after dribbling - in this case it remains in their possession for 6s so an opposing player will slide rather than trap unless he takes possession first (by touching the ball).
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby Bounty Bob » Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:46 am

Fair enough. :)
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby John Wilson » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:59 pm

gdh82 wrote:
:) This is an old vid....(sorry about poor quality)



I shall be looking into this, next time I meet up for KOBRA bro's ...


Thanks for posting this evidence Garry - I've just had a closer look now and it appears that all the unintended slides are of the variety under Explanation No. 1 - The Unintended Slide when nobody else is anywhere near the ball - i.e. the player just lets the ball run free after dribbling and it remains in their possession for 6s (so an opposing player will slide rather than trap).

The successful traps look like very similar scenarios - i.e. the player dribbling the ball lets it run free so according to the theory the opponent should do an unintentional slide.
However, according to "Explanation No. 2 - The Unintended Slide when a defender is near", a moving player will take possession from a static player if they are near enough to each other. With these successful traps the player who has just released the ball stops with the opponent near - hence the opponent takes possession and is able to trap the ball. This is most obvious in the last two examples.

Will you still be trying this at your next KOBRA meeting? Or has the KOA formally accepted the 'Stop the slide' switch? :wink:
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby Torchiador » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:04 pm

Really interesting!
Just a question about these explanations: are there differences between KO2 and Final Whistle?
Thank you!
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby gdh82 » Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:55 pm

Got some more video evidence but still in the camera so will try to post tonight...
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby gdh82 » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:26 pm

I've got two clips both showing efforts to trap the ball with an opponent nearby and in both examples the joystick is NOT centred before trapping.

Firstly this seems to shows that it is possible to trap the ball:
http://www.mediamax.com/gdh81/Hosted/cl ... dslide.AVI

However this seems to show that the unintended slide still occurs:
http://www.mediamax.com/gdh81/Hosted/cl ... idebug.AVI

:?o:
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby John Wilson » Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:09 pm

Torchiador wrote:Really interesting!
Just a question about these explanations: are there differences between KO2 and Final Whistle?
Thank you!

...no difference - these mechanisms appear identical in both versions :)

gdh82 wrote:I've got two clips both showing efforts to trap the ball with an opponent nearby and in both examples the joystick is NOT centred before trapping.


Nice work here Garry. I hope the following clears any confusion.

gdh82 wrote:Firstly this seems to shows that it is possible to trap the ball:
http://www.mediamax.com/gdh81/Hosted/cl ... dslide.AVI


...indeed. I notice the stick is centered briefly but of course you touch the ball again before attempting the trap so ensure you have possession.

gdh82 wrote:However this seems to show that the unintended slide still occurs:
http://www.mediamax.com/gdh81/Hosted/cl ... idebug.AVI

:?o:


...but the yellow player gets very close to the ball (closer than blue) and so takes possession - hence the slide by blue.

If you step through the frames you can see the button is pressed and for a couple of frames nothing occurs as blue has possession so does not slide and he is not close enough to the ball to trap either. But then yellow slips in front of blue, gets very close to the ball and gains possession so blue immediately slides.

Even the 'Stop The Slide' switch wouldn't have saved blue's embarrassment here as yellow is closer to the ball than blue :lol:
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby gdh82 » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:58 pm

John Wilson wrote:If you step through the frames you can see the button is pressed and for a couple of frames nothing occurs as blue has possession so does not slide and he is not close enough to the ball to trap either. But then yellow slips in front of blue, gets very close to the ball and gains possession so blue immediately slides.


Thanks John - that makes sense. I must admit I had a sneaking suspicion about the fast encroaching yellow player! :) Is this a case of where possession changes even though it doesn't seem to be displayed on screen ? If so, is it a matter of the 'displayed possession' playing catchup with the 'actual possession ' ?
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby John Wilson » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:22 pm

gdh82 wrote:
John Wilson wrote:If you step through the frames you can see the button is pressed and for a couple of frames nothing occurs as blue has possession so does not slide and he is not close enough to the ball to trap either. But then yellow slips in front of blue, gets very close to the ball and gains possession so blue immediately slides.


Thanks John - that makes sense. I must admit I had a sneaking suspicion about the fast encroaching yellow player! :) Is this a case of where possession changes even though it doesn't seem to be displayed on screen ? If so, is it a matter of the 'displayed possession' playing catchup with the 'actual possession ' ?

Glad to be of help :) ...I'm not sure the display on screen will play catchup though. The displayed player is strictly the last player to touch the ball. Possession can change without a player touching the ball - the main example of this is when a player with possession briefly stops while the opposing player is close, resulting in a switch of possession.

What may also have occured in this case is that yellow appears to win the shoulder charge and forces blue to stop. You can see from the joystick display that yellow is pushing right on the stick but moving up-right until he gets in front of blue. At that point blue's speed could have been reduced to zero and hence he's going have possession usurped by yellow.
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby gdh82 » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:50 pm

John Wilson wrote:The displayed player is strictly the last player to touch the ball.


Sounds obvious but I didn't know that! Thanks for the further explanation too.
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby Bounty Bob » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:41 am

John Wilson wrote:But then yellow slips in front of blue, gets very close to the ball and gains possession so blue immediately slides.
Sounds like the defender forces the attacker into making a mistake. Just another example of Dino's genius at programming the subtleties of the beautiful game. :)
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby John Wilson » Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:19 am

Bounty Bob wrote:
John Wilson wrote:But then yellow slips in front of blue, gets very close to the ball and gains possession so blue immediately slides.
Sounds like the defender forces the attacker into making a mistake. Just another example of Dino's genius at programming the subtleties of the beautiful game. :)


...Pure Genius :lol:

Another subtlety is that a committed player who confidently strides towards the ball with the intention to trap will most likely succeed but one that dithers may succumb to the 'The Unintended Slide when a defender is near'.

In fact, I find it so satisfying beating off a defender in this way I may put a request into Camber to make the 'Stop The Slide Bug' switch optional for each team :lol:
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Re: Slide Tackle Logic Explained

Postby gdh82 » Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:27 pm

John Wilson wrote:In fact, I find it so satisfying beating off a defender in this way I may put a request into Camber to make the 'Stop The Slide Bug' switch optional for each team :lol:


Remember as well John that even in a tourney where the 'Stop The Slide Bug' switch is used, any two players can agree amongst themselves to re-introduce the bug for their match if they're really missing it!
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