RANDOM FACTOR

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Torchiador
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Postby Torchiador » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:04 pm

Steve Camber wrote:
Torchiador wrote:
7 in penalty kick (AI?)

I have an idea about PKs.
sometimes the goalkeeper doesn't dive to stop the ball even if you move the joystick. may you have a look on those random factor? maybe that the reason about these no dives is in those 7 random factor...
I'm sure the reason isn't in my joystick. :)

I have looked at the code.

The random element in the goalie save is purely for the CPU goalie.

For the human save, the direction must already be selected at the time that the fire button is pressed... Pressing the fire button and then moving the joystick 1 frame later is not good enough as the goalie will not jump.

understood, thank you!

Last question, about this one:
2 when ball is placed on centre spot. It's given some horizontal velocity

seems to me that this kind of random event affects the whole game situation, not only the "ball is placed on centre spot" situation.
I'm not speaking about corners spots and penalty spots only, I'm speaking about a random factor that affects the ball control for the whole game.
Of course, when the ball is placed on a spot (like penalty spot, corner spot) we can see the the horizontal speed that moves the ball, but we can't see this event during a game situation because the ball in perpetual motion.
My question is: Is it possible that this horizontal velocity affects the whole game? May you take a look on this one again?
Thank you!
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Steve Camber
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Postby Steve Camber » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:00 am

Torchiador wrote:Last question, about this one:
2 when ball is placed on centre spot. It's given some horizontal velocity

seems to me that this kind of random event affects the whole game situation, not only the "ball is placed on centre spot" situation.
I'm not speaking about corners spots and penalty spots only, I'm speaking about a random factor that affects the ball control for the whole game.
Of course, when the ball is placed on a spot (like penalty spot, corner spot) we can see the the horizontal speed that moves the ball, but we can't see this event during a game situation because the ball in perpetual motion.
My question is: Is it possible that this horizontal velocity affects the whole game? May you take a look on this one again?
Thank you!


The only time when random horizontal velocity is applied is when the ball is placed on the centre spot.
The sideways motion visible when the ball is placed on the penalty spot is due to the velocity not being totally cleared.
The only horizontal velocity applied during the whole game is wind, there is no random element!
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Torchiador
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Postby Torchiador » Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:09 pm

Thank you!

The only time when random horizontal velocity is applied is when the ball is placed on the centre spot.
this one is the reason because sometimes happen different things at the kickoff.



The only horizontal velocity applied during the whole game is wind, there is no random element!

Of course, no random function called for wind during the game, one of the three random functions for wind is called before the starting of the game (at the coin toss) and it is applied during the game.


The sideways motion visible when the ball is placed on the penalty spot is due to the velocity not being totally cleared.

This one keeps a door open to my supposition: maybe that sometimes there is something strange that affects the ball control... and this one is visible only when the ball is placed in center spot, corner spots penalty spots... :P
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Postby Torchiador » Sat May 05, 2007 4:35 pm

Torchiador wrote:

Steve Camber wrote:The sideways motion visible when the ball is placed on the penalty spot is due to the velocity not being totally cleared.

This one keeps a door open to my supposition: maybe that sometimes there is something strange that affects the ball control... and this one is visible only when the ball is placed in center spot, corner spots penalty spots... :P


Since I'm a obstinate peson, today I have tried to understand this matter.
Now I'm sure about the sideways motion.
It happens on the whole pitch, it doesn't only happen on center spot, corner spots or penalty spots.
It is like wind at the ground. it has only 2 directions: 'north>south' and 'south>north'. Sometimes this kind of wind is strong and you can see it, just leaving the ball on the pitch for few moments, sometimes it is weak (but is present the same) and you have to wait more time to see it.
It always affects the ball control: if you have a good eye and good ear, you feel it while you are runnning with the ball in front of this 'wind': it seems that you are controlling the ball on soggy pitch: short steps with the ball (I'm exaggerating, just to explane the fact). On the contrary, if you run with the ball and you 'sail before the wind' it seems that you are controlling the ball on plastic pitch: long steps with the ball (I'm exaggerating again).
I hope that someone (i can say THE ONE) is able to fix the bug...
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Postby Steve Camber » Sat May 05, 2007 10:29 pm

I'm not sure I completely understand what you are trying to describe. I've just looked through the code, and there are no suspicious modifications to the ball's North/South velocity.
:?o:
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Postby Torchiador » Sat May 05, 2007 10:45 pm

Steve Camber wrote:I'm not sure I completely understand what you are trying to describe. I've just looked through the code, and there are no suspicious modifications to the ball's North/South velocity.
:?o:


Sorry for my english...
I'll try to explane it with a video!
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Postby Torchiador » Thu May 10, 2007 4:50 pm

Here's the video.

This one explanes better then my words.
http://www.kickoff2.it/tmp/bug.wmv


This one shows that: while the ball il movin from right to left, at a certain moment the ball goes in 'norht' direction of one pixel.
It means that this bug affects the ball while the ball is moving as well, not only while the ball is idle on the pitch.
http://www.kickoff2.it/tmp/bug2.wmv
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Postby Steve Camber » Thu May 10, 2007 6:05 pm

Torchiador wrote:Here's the video.

This one explanes better then my words.
http://www.kickoff2.it/tmp/bug.wmv


This is due to the ball's velocity not being completely reduced to zero.

Torchiador wrote:This one shows that: while the ball il movin from right to left, at a certain moment the ball goes in 'norht' direction of one pixel.
It means that this bug affects the ball while the ball is moving as well, not only while the ball is idle on the pitch.
http://www.kickoff2.it/tmp/bug2.wmv


The ball is moving where it is supposed to. The vertical velocity is not absolutely zero in this case. This is the beauty of the 32-bit accuracy in ko2 internal maths.
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Postby Torchiador » Thu May 10, 2007 7:11 pm

So there is always a vertical velocity close to zero in KO2. Sometime is more close to zero, some time less close to zero, in this second case, we see the walking ball on the pitch.
I suppose this velocity is present when the ball is in the air too.
this one is a good point for who support light wind... we play KO2 with ultralight wind since 1990... :)
My question is: why the orizzontal (left-right) velocity is 0 and the vertical velocity is not zero?
Isn't it a 32-bit accuracy too?
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Re: RANDOM FACTOR

Postby samo79 » Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:12 pm

About penalty Kicks, if you try Kick Off 1 you can easly see that the goalkeapers seems a lot more responsible, it is possible now to block a penalty kick simpy moving the joystick in any direction and pressing the button, in Kick Off 2 instead the goalkeapers seems static ...

Is it possible to check how they works in Kick Off 1 ?
Le mele a volte possono essere devastate dal colpo feroce di una tempesta, ma il tenero fascio del sole potrà sempre far sviluppare dei nuovi frutti
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Re:

Postby hogstrom » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:12 am

Torchiador wrote:Since I'm a obstinate peson, today I have tried to understand this matter.
Now I'm sure about the sideways motion.
It happens on the whole pitch, it doesn't only happen on center spot, corner spots or penalty spots.
It is like wind at the ground. it has only 2 directions: 'north>south' and 'south>north'. Sometimes this kind of wind is strong and you can see it, just leaving the ball on the pitch for few moments, sometimes it is weak (but is present the same) and you have to wait more time to see it.


Same experiences here, Gianni. Performing the blc, when playing uppwards the ball sometimes flies into the goal without any player touching the ball, more common is that it passes the line for a pointless goalkick though. This phenomen happens very rarely though, but at least 1/50 tries I would dare to say. So indeed the ball moves upwards (I have not seen it moving down though) now and then when playing kickoff2.
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Re:

Postby Troglos » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:15 am

Torchiador wrote:
Torchiador wrote:

Steve Camber wrote:The sideways motion visible when the ball is placed on the penalty spot is due to the velocity not being totally cleared.

This one keeps a door open to my supposition: maybe that sometimes there is something strange that affects the ball control... and this one is visible only when the ball is placed in center spot, corner spots penalty spots... :P


Since I'm a obstinate peson, today I have tried to understand this matter.
Now I'm sure about the sideways motion.
It happens on the whole pitch, it doesn't only happen on center spot, corner spots or penalty spots.
It is like wind at the ground. it has only 2 directions: 'north>south' and 'south>north'. Sometimes this kind of wind is strong and you can see it, just leaving the ball on the pitch for few moments, sometimes it is weak (but is present the same) and you have to wait more time to see it.
It always affects the ball control: if you have a good eye and good ear, you feel it while you are runnning with the ball in front of this 'wind': it seems that you are controlling the ball on soggy pitch: short steps with the ball (I'm exaggerating, just to explane the fact). On the contrary, if you run with the ball and you 'sail before the wind' it seems that you are controlling the ball on plastic pitch: long steps with the ball (I'm exaggerating again).
I hope that someone (i can say THE ONE) is able to fix the bug...

Is for sure a bug this? If there is a random factor that determine this movement, I think that we have not to call this a bug.
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hogstrom
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Re: RANDOM FACTOR

Postby hogstrom » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:24 pm

Good question Troglos, bug or not? Anyhow, if it is a bug, then it is such a small one that imo it should be left into the game.
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