RANDOM FACTOR

Talk about EVERYTHING related to Kick Off 1 + 2.

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Bounty Bob
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Postby Bounty Bob » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:36 pm

Abyss wrote:
alkis21 wrote:
5 in passing the ball
1 in vertical velocity when goalie touching ball


FFS don't stop! Give us more! This is amazing.. fuck the 'Polyrakis' theorem!


We should first demolish the axiom.
I think Alkis just did that.
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Postby Steve Camber » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:11 pm

Ely wrote:
Steve Camber wrote:1 as you navigate some menus

This is clearly the most interesting one of that lot! Random Menus :lol:

Whenever you move the highlight in some screens, the random factor gets shuffled. KO2CV impoves upon this ;)
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Postby Steve Camber » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:14 pm

Abyss wrote:
1 in a coloured screen crash


:shock: :shock: :shock:

Can you elaborate?

Code: Select all

If int(rnd*100) > 98 then
   crash and display a coloured screen;

It's some redundant code. When the game crashes, you get a coloured screen giving a hint as to where the problem lies.
Some old code in there seems to have flashed the screen random colours after a crash for some reason!
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Postby Robert Swift » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:16 pm

All Polyrakis theory is disredited since the Semi Final in WC2005.
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Postby Sid » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:54 pm

Bounty Bob wrote:I'm wondering whether A only nearly =B. Yes all the player stats are the same but are there some other hidden depths to the code that cause team B to be lesser in some instances?


How do you explain the fact that lately I have been playing better as Team B?

8-4 vs Bishop
9-3 vs Haydn
8-2 vs Stainy

(also Waynie beat me as Team B 10-3 with those infamous antics of his!)
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Postby Steve1977 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:05 pm

Randomness...having got back into Kick Off recently, Iv found myself appreciating it even more for just this reason. In real life, you could play the same game with the same conditions but take one link out of the chain, whether that be how a player was feeling on the day or some other, seemingly inconsequential issue, it would produce a different outcome.

This 'randomness' makes Kick Off more human and is a gem.
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Postby Il_Maestro » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:36 pm

Steve Camber wrote:Another point is that positions are stored to an impressive accuracy of about 5 decimal places. A player might look like he's standing on a particular pixel, but there are 4.3 billion different individual positions which that player could be in and still be regarded as being on that pixel. In much of the code, this high accuracy is ignored which could account for a particular scenario not being identically repeatable.

That statemente should be the manifesto to quote every time someone calls for wind in the name of randomness....
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Postby jesper » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:00 pm

Steve Camber wrote:1 in decoding player initials
2 in more player initials
2 in surname


This is weird. Are you saying that the player names are not deterministic? :shock: :?:
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Postby jesper » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:04 pm

Il_Maestro wrote:
Steve Camber wrote:Another point is that positions are stored to an impressive accuracy of about 5 decimal places. A player might look like he's standing on a particular pixel, but there are 4.3 billion different individual positions which that player could be in and still be regarded as being on that pixel. In much of the code, this high accuracy is ignored which could account for a particular scenario not being identically repeatable.

That statemente should be the manifesto to quote every time someone calls for wind in the name of randomness....


This has nothing to do with randomness as such. It just means that the model is more precise than what is shown on the screen. No big surprise here.
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Postby Steve Camber » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:27 pm

jesper wrote:
Steve Camber wrote:1 in decoding player initials
2 in more player initials
2 in surname


This is weird. Are you saying that the player names are not deterministic? :shock: :?:

Player names, (initials and surname) are stored as 4 bytes. The random number generator is given this as a seed, and then the following random numbers are predictable. These are used to create the name.. the same every time! Afterwards the random number system is restored to its previous state.

This is why it's extremely difficult to modify the player initials along with the surname.
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Postby Steve Camber » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:30 pm

jesper wrote:This has nothing to do with randomness as such. It just means that the model is more precise than what is shown on the screen. No big surprise here.

Quite often only the upper 16 bits of the 32 bit position is set, leaving the fractional part unaltered. This will generate a degree of randomness.

One visible example of this is sometimes the ball on the penalty spot will slowly roll away if you leave it long enough! Only the upper part of the velocity is zeroed.
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Postby jesper » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:37 pm

Steve Camber wrote:Player names, (initials and surname) are stored as 4 bytes. The random number generator is given this as a seed, and then the following random numbers are predictable. These are used to create the name.. the same every time! Afterwards the random number system is restored to its previous state.

This is why it's extremely difficult to modify the player initials along with the surname.


Nice to know. I remember trying to figure out the player name mapping. I found no correlation and gave up ... :)
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Postby jesper » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:38 pm

Steve Camber wrote:
jesper wrote:This has nothing to do with randomness as such. It just means that the model is more precise than what is shown on the screen. No big surprise here.

Quite often only the upper 16 bits of the 32 bit position is set, leaving the fractional part unaltered. This will generate a degree of randomness.

One visible example of this is sometimes the ball on the penalty spot will slowly roll away if you leave it long enough! Only the upper part of the velocity is zeroed.


a) it sounds like a bug
b) it doesn't violate the Polyrakis Theorem
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