the goal that never was..(how did he save that?)

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gdh82
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the goal that never was..(how did he save that?)

Postby gdh82 » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:13 pm

Sorry if this has been raised before but as much as I love KO2 one of the aspects that drives me barmy is when the keeper somehow manages to save the ball even though clearly it would have beat him. You know when the shot is significantly to the side of the keeper but within the goals (particularly evident on slow-motion replay)!

Is this just a bug or is it a case of the graphics not keeping up with gameplay?

I wondered if those of the forum who have delved into the KO2 program could answer - how does the game decide if its a goal or not ? Maybe I'm paranoid but it sometimes feels the logic is like....

IF its-me-shooting THEN keep-saves-it :?o:
IF its-my-opponent-shooting THEN my-opponent-scores :yuck:

Any advice is sure to minimise the headaches in future ! :bang: Thanks in advance...
Semtex
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Postby Semtex » Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:21 pm

This is a very good, relevent question.
However, bear in mind that I'm the unluckiest player in the KOA. (Mind you I'm so unlucky that you are probably more unlucky than me, just to take that title away...)
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Steve Camber
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Postby Steve Camber » Sun Jun 04, 2006 9:57 pm

Semtex wrote:(Mind you I'm so unlucky that you are probably more unlucky than me, just to take that title away...)

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I've not had a look at the goalkeeper code, but I've seen the goal detection code, and it could be better! We've all seen near misses which count, and simple goals that don't, but that's all part of the charm :)
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Bounty Bob
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Postby Bounty Bob » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:03 pm

The ones that get me are when the keeper is diving and the ball is past his feet, yet he still manages to grab it with his hands!
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Postby Stainy » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:18 am

I remember something about this..

we used to call it `the appearence factor` !!

the keepers catchment area or something.. it appears in his hands, when it looks like it`s going past him..
Like Steve said.. the keepers code probably isn`t as great as it could be.

ie - if keeper has this rating and above.. then if ball is `so` close to him = catch
Image
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Postby gdh82 » Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:19 am

Bounty Bob wrote:The ones that get me are when the keeper is diving and the ball is past his feet, yet he still manages to grab it with his hands!


Yeah, he's an acrobatic little f***er sometimes - couldn't you just shoot him!

However, bear in mind that I'm the unluckiest player in the KOA.


Seems you might have a challenger here, Semtex! Then again, bad luck might mean neither or us scores resulting in stalemate !
I've not had a look at the goalkeeper code, but I've seen the goal detection code, and it could be better! We've all seen near misses which count, and simple goals that don't, but that's all part of the charm Smile


At least the near misses that count doesn't happen very often ! For me at least the "saves" that should be goals happens almost every match so the charm is rubbed right off! :blab:

Could you tell me more about the goal detection code, Steve ? What factors does the game take into account when deciding if a shot on target is a goal or not ? If its an impossibility for the goalie to save it does not appear to be an issue! :lol: :lol:
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Postby gdh82 » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:10 pm

Stainy wrote:ie - if keeper has this rating and above.. then if ball is `so` close to him = catch


Thanks Stainy for that - its beginning to make more sense now...

Is this something that could be tweaked ? If there was some kind of variable, say, 'distance-from-keeper' (default=15pixels) which could be set to , say, 5pixels, then for me that would just enhance the skill level of the game? It seems the margin of error is in favour of the goalie but worse than that it seems inconsistent ???

This might sound dumb but I take it that not all keepers are the same ? I do realise that changing the game level (international etc) changes the keepers' ability but not sure exactly how ? Any more advice appreciated...
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Bounty Bob
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Postby Bounty Bob » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:47 pm

gdh82 wrote:
Stainy wrote:ie - if keeper has this rating and above.. then if ball is `so` close to him = catch


Thanks Stainy for that - its beginning to make more sense now...
Hehe, Stainy the Kick Off code guru, who'd have thought? :lol:
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Postby gdh82 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:03 am

Steve Camber wrote:I've not had a look at the goalkeeper code, but I've seen the goal detection code, and it could be better! We've all seen near misses which count, and simple goals that don't, but that's all part of the charm :)


So, Steve, can you give us some more details regarding the goal detection code - I really am interested to find out more! Or are these secrets an advantage to your game play :wink: :wink:
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Postby Steve Camber » Thu Jun 08, 2006 7:08 am

I've had a look at the goal detection code, and it checks the ball's position in 3d space, checking it accurately against all the woodwork. It doesn't do any clever interpolation though, so it's not perfect and explains the occasional questionable decision:

Image
The excellent diagram above should make this clearer!
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Postby gdh82 » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:04 am

Steve Camber wrote:Image
The excellent diagram above should make this clearer!


Errmm, cheers Steve :clown: :?o: :cyc:
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Postby Steve Camber » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:19 am

The shot on the left *should* have hit the side netting, and a goal kick should be awarded. Instead, a goal is given as when the ball is first detected outside of the pitch area it is found within the boundaries of the goal.

The shot on the right *should* have been a goal, but instead it is considered to be a goal kick as the ball "never entered" the goal.
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18 Dec 2003 - "One day I'm going to disassemble the 68000 code, and find out exactly what's going on in there!! "

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Postby Bounty Bob » Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:58 am

The circles represent where the ball would be in a particular frame. What gets shown to the player is obviously where the ball is in each frame of the display. If the ball is moving faster it travels more pixels for each frame that is generated. For example, a slow moving ball might move 1 pixel per frame but a fast moving one could be going 20 pixels per frame. If the first frame is just before the post and 20 pixels later is past the post in the goal, it won't detect the post hit and will instead make it a goal.

What should happen is that it should work out the difference between where the ball was and where it is and see if it pased any boundaries such as posts etc. Steve's saying it doesn't do this.
Last edited by Bounty Bob on Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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