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Player Manager 2003 sucks

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 4:04 pm
by gillis
What s the point off calling a game Player Manager 2003 if you don't get the chance to play the game . This is only a management game and that really piss me off, cause the graphic are good and it would have been really cool to play like in the best game ever: Player Manager.

sorry for my lousy english

Re: Player Manager 2003 sucks

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 4:30 pm
by Danne
gillis wrote:What s the point off calling a game Player Manager 2003 if you don't get the chance to play the game . This is only a management game and that really piss me off, cause the graphic are good and it would have been really cool to play like in the best game ever: Player Manager.

sorry for my lousy english


I agree.

Why call a manager game "Player Manager" ?????

I suppose it has to do with marketing although it is strange anyway.

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 4:30 pm
by Calimero
Saying that the game sucks might be a bit harsh. I think it didn't meet your expectations because you wanted to control the players on the pitch.

I also like the combination of managing and playing, so I haven't really played PM2003. If you really didn't like it then I hope you only downloaded the demo like I did. :roll:

If you have some more patience, you might be interested in the upcoming Ultimate Player Manager (see the forum by that name).
It combines management with arcade football, including complete career mode, play as team, play in position, transfer market and such. 8)

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 8:02 pm
by gillis
Calimero,

I can't wait for UPM, that s why Im here, but I really hope that it will be better thant kick off 2002 wich really disapointed me

Gillis

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:17 pm
by Stainy
why didn`t you like KO2002 then ?

Granted on the Player Manager thing though!!

long live Manager 2004 ! ;)

Posted: Tue May 13, 2003 11:42 pm
by dontmailme
I guess the title does fit.........

Player Manager..... Well what else are you managing in the game if not players ???? ;)

OK, it could have been called team manager..... but PM is a good title for it :)

Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 7:02 am
by Calimero
gillis wrote:Calimero,

I can't wait for UPM, that s why Im here, but I really hope that it will be better thant kick off 2002 wich really disapointed me


I must admit I was disappointed too when I first played it. I was so used to KO2 that I got frustated trying to do the same things in KO2002.
But you really have to give it some time, because even if you are a great KO2 player you still have a learning curve with KO2002.

Although there are still some issues to be solved, I only play KO2002 nowadays. KO2 is just to outdated for me, in comparison.
And I'm confident that KO2004 (and especially UPM) will correct those things and that it will be the game we have been waiting for since the early '90s. :8

Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 9:08 am
by Danne
gillis wrote:Calimero,

I can't wait for UPM, that s why Im here, but I really hope that it will be better thant kick off 2002 wich really disapointed me


yea. why didnt you like KO 2002?

It is really important that those who are disappointed with KO 2002 can tell why so we can improve that for KO 2004.

and I agree with Calimero. I thought KO 2002 was average in the beginning cause of the really strange default choices and all limitations within the options and teameditor drove me made.... and still does sometimes.

Now I like it very much but I hardly play a half without getting irritated of the gameplay bugs.

* CPU ai runs after you like a fool and you can run 90m without getting attacked at all.

* You cant do timed sliding tacles. yopu continue to press and press the button but nothing happens like it would in GOAL and Kick Off 1/2.

* Autofire system that make the midfielders head the ball back when you give height aftertouch.


But Gillis.

I promise I will do everything to make Steve fix those things for KO 2004. ( I am a beta tester)

Tell me what you wanna improve and will do everything I can to improve those stuff as well.

cheers

Posted: Wed May 14, 2003 11:21 pm
by gillis
Danne,

Thanx for your attention, I will try to explain to you why I didn't like KO2002 but my english is really poor.
I expected so much from this game and I was really disapointed by the gameplay. I don't care about graphics and stuff like that (I m still enjoying Player manager 1) but I can't help to think that the AI should have been much much better and that the game, after all thoses years should have improve much more than that. I think Steve have made a good old fashion game, like in the old days but it s not enough now that you can play game like WINNING ELEVEN 6 FINAL EDITION (and again I m not talking graphics but gameplay)
KO2004 must have an incredible AI, a role play option, some management (like the master league in PES 2) and a slower pace.
It s only my opinion and I already had this discussion, five years ago with DINO DINI when I was pissed by the FIFA series, begging him to make a new Player Manager with Steve.

I hope you ll will understand my terrible english

Cheers

Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 6:57 am
by Danne
gillis wrote:Danne,

Thanx for your attention, I will try to explain to you why I didn't like KO2002 but my english is really poor.
I expected so much from this game and I was really disapointed by the gameplay. I don't care about graphics and stuff like that (I m still enjoying Player manager 1) but I can't help to think that the AI should have been much much better and that the game, after all thoses years should have improve much more than that. I think Steve have made a good old fashion game, like in the old days but it s not enough now that you can play game like WINNING ELEVEN 6 FINAL EDITION (and again I m not talking graphics but gameplay)
KO2004 must have an incredible AI, a role play option, some management (like the master league in PES 2) and a slower pace.
It s only my opinion and I already had this discussion, five years ago with DINO DINI when I was pissed by the FIFA series, begging him to make a new Player Manager with Steve.

I hope you ll will understand my terrible english

Cheers


thank you gillis.

All I can say is that I totally agree about your critics against KO 2002.

Especially the cpu ai is bad and needs a big update. Thats something I have claimed since day 1 I played Kick Off 2002. Steve knows this as well and has promised a brand new CPU AI for KO 2004. Iand the rest of the betatesters will test it and we dont will leave this subject until the AI is really great.

A role play option. Does this mean play in position. That is allready possible in KO 2002 patch 1.33 but the speedsystem make it not work as good as in Player Manager. This is something that I will talk about in the beta testing as well.

If you want slower pace why dont you choose medium or slow speed?
I though reckon alot of people complain about the gamespeed and I think the default speed should be medium speed. The most guys in here dont agree with me though. Nowadays I also play with medium speed. The game becomes so much more full of tactics, nervous behaviours :) and you actually have time to think in different situations.

About the manager part I probably cant help you though. This has been discussed and Steve will have one specific game for the manager part, Ultimate Player Manager.

Over all I agree on what you say.

thanx for sharing. The people that have been very very disappointed with KO 2002 havent mentioned there problems with the game before. thanx for doing that.

gillis
any other proposals to improve the game???

Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 7:31 am
by gillis
Thanx Danne, with Beta tester like you, KO2004 will surely rock...
You are right, roleplay= play in position. I know you have that option in Ko2002 but the poor AI make it pointless.

My last request regarding the AI (again) is that I would love to feel a real difference between teams and not only concerning speed or accuracy.
Playing against Italia should be a nightmare because of their great defense, or playing against Holland would be more about Attacking, and so on ...


Thank you again for your kindness.

Cheers

Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 10:01 am
by Danne
gillis wrote:Thanx Danne, with Beta tester like you, KO2004 will surely rock...


:lol: I wish it was that easy.

The only we (the betatesters) can do is to get Steve focused on the important parts and come with suggestion to improve those. Then it is up to Steve to try to make it as good as possible. Talking about cpu ai this is probably the most difficult to do properly and thats maybe the reason why so many games have poor cpu ai. I would say that no matter how much time Steve spend on the CPU ai there is no guarantee that it will be great. I though think that the cpu AI at least will not be as bad as the KO 2002 one. But whether it is going to be great or just ok is impossible to say.

gillis wrote:My last request regarding the AI (again) is that I would love to feel a real difference between teams and not only concerning speed or accuracy.
Playing against Italia should be a nightmare because of their great defense, or playing against Holland would be more about Attacking, and so on ...


I will add this to my list to things that should be fixed. I agree that it is more fun if the tactics the team use are realistic. = Holland play rather offensive. Italy more defensive and so on as you say. I will try to get this implemented in KO 2004.

One cool thing that will be added in UPM (maybe in KO 2004) is that different nationalities will have different individualities. A swede usually have worse dribbling than a brazilian player. and that kind of stuff...
Hopefully this will be implemented in KO 2004 as well. It would make the cpu ai more realistic. I will mention this in the betatesting as well.

If you come up with more ideas to improve the game then post and I will make sure to bring it up in the beta testing, hopefully also Steve will implement them. :)

Posted: Thu May 15, 2003 11:50 am
by TomasV
Just join the KickOff2004 and UPM forum aswell. To discuss all these things. I was the newbie of Kickoff games completly but we need all to make it much better

Danne I hope you dont going to be an too nice beta tester. I hope you can get innovations and make from Kickoff 2004 more than an updated KickOff 2002.

For the UPM part If ofcourse in myself. Player Manager I did play the demo I remember but I gave up soon. I didnt like the interface. Should have a look again maybe :wink: