Can I put myself through this again

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Yoda
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Postby Yoda » Mon Apr 29, 2002 12:59 pm

Over the weekend I read in a PS2 mag that Kick Off 2002 would be released. With my knees trembling for 12 hours I get to work and over lunchtime (5 minutes left) find this site after an hour of searching for Kick Off and variants on google. I'm happy to be here, even if my boss isn't.

Ever since Kick Off, Kick Off 2 and expecially Player Manager got into my life and ate it up, to the point where I messed up my A-Levels from playing instead of revising. I've wondered if there could be another game to exhibit a stranglehold on one's existence to the same degree all these years later.

Anyhoo, I know its tradition to shout abuse at new members for not reading all the threads and asking questions that have been asked before, but I'm just so excited I can't help myself: Is there going to be a version of Player Manager on PC, PS1, PS2 or whatever?

I need a lie down.

Cheers
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Yoda
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Postby Yoda » Mon Apr 29, 2002 3:38 pm

Shame about the PS2 versions, I hate it when companies put graphics above playability.

This afternoon has been so unproductive for me, I just remembered how I used to walk down West Hill in Dartford during my school lunch hour to visit the Anco shop at the bottom of the hill.

Dino, so you are both considering doing a Player Manager style game. As it would seem to appeal mainly to a small niche market, in my opinion it would be a better idea to co-ordinate your efforts to produce twice the game and break out of the niche market into the mainstream.

I've now read a few other threads and it seems like you are open to the idea, but Steve isn't, purely because the subject wasn't brought up in your phone conversation. That would be a pretty small reason not to investigate the possibility further.

You both want to make a "Player Manager sequel", you both want to make it now, there appears to be very little stopping you doing it together. Financing the project could be the biggest stumbling block if you are both currently pursuing separate means, but I wouldn't consider that to be an irreconcilable difference at such an early stage.

I apologise if there really is no way and I am posting out of turn, but it seems too big an issue (in this community at least) to miss out on because of a lack of communication.
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alkis21
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Postby alkis21 » Mon Apr 29, 2002 10:08 pm

Norman, Steve's next project is Ultimate Player Manager! It will be a PC version similar to Player Manager, based on the Kick Off 2002 engine. Check the Ultimate Player Manager section for more information.
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Postby Guest » Tue Apr 30, 2002 8:42 am

Yoda here, username/password problems.

Dino, I agree the market for football games is huge, but the "playing matches" footy games (FIFA being the obvious example) that succeed in the current market put graphics above playbility. The management games, particularly the CM series, just add more stats, give you more control over more and more minor details as they develop from one year to the next.

I called it a niche market because this whole community has grown up around a game that had playability as the main selling point rather than graphics, and using Kick Off 2002 as a basis for comparison, that is how people in this community want the future to go, and is probably the direction that Steve would push his Ultimate Player Manager. Considering your KO & PM background I expect you would also be producing a game to be played for years with graphics not the main priority, rather than a game that has a great intro that sits on a demo machine in a shop that is sold by the bucket load and played for 2 weeks then forgotten, all because it has amazing graphics, fluid animation, control over the meat percentage of the pies etc.

The people in this community can see past the graphics and the features on the box and use playability as the prime feature when making purchasing decisions, 99% of the game playing public do not, hence a niche market.

Alkis, yes I've read some of the posts in the UPM forum (admittedly not all of them, not enough time), but from what I've read and knowing the effort it takes to produce software, 2 heads are better than 1, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, and other proverbs and cliches.

Without knowing Steve & Dino's relationship, in my opinion it seems daft both of them trying to produce a similar game separately, when they could achieve much more by working together on the same project. I doubt they'll get a better opportunity than now.

Cheers
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VKafiris
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Postby VKafiris » Tue Apr 30, 2002 12:57 pm

*APPLAUSE*

I really enjoyed this post by Dino.
It sums up the KO/PM philosophy.
Thanx mate!
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Robert Swift
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Postby Robert Swift » Tue Apr 30, 2002 5:03 pm

I'll sign up for that.

The most important aspects for me are:

Speed
Amount of the pitch that you can see
Range of goal scoring
Player control vs AI control

All the crappest games are really slow, you are zoomed in on your player (they want to show off all the polygons in the faces etc), you can't see who to pass to or who is closing you down, and you end up scoring the same identical goal that works best over and over again. You just press a button and the AI does it all for you.

The best games are really fast, you can pick out those weaknesses in the opposition tactic, hit killer passes, you get into the box and have any number of ways to attack depending on the situation, you then have to execute some really fancy handwork or fingerwork and the player scores a great goal - because you did the work and had the audacity to try something special.

The two games I just described are of course FIFA and KO2.

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