WORLD RANKING - Updated for April 2002

Talk about any Kick Off Tournament here.

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Robert Swift
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Postby Robert Swift » Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:34 pm

Alkis have you been drinking. That is quite simply the shittest post I've seen since Rikki Fullarton was first given his keyboard. It almost looks like somebody else wrote it, not Alkis. I am really disappointed.


On 2002-04-01 22:03, alkis21 wrote:
As everyone can see, I chose not to argue with Robert so far. That was mainly for two reasons:

1)I don't take World Rankings seriously at all. If you look at FIFA's World Ranking, you'll notice that Colombia is 5th, above at least 20 countries that can easily beat them.


Fine, so my ranking is no better than the FIFA ranking? Looks like both systems have difficulties. I hope you're writing a filthy abusive mail to FIFA right now about that Colombia ranking.

2)I don't take Robert seriously either. He may defend his point with his life one day, and then claim the exact opposite the next one. He's done it on numerous occasions. For instance, take a look at what he said 5 weeks ago:

--
Posted: 2002-02-23 00:08

Gloucester is a UK tournament and the winner will be the UK champion only. I would not place them above the Dartford champion in my U.P.O. ranking because the highest ranked UK player is Nazim and he was 5th. This gives us no basis to declare our champion better than the Dartford champion.
--


You obviously can't read. The ranking I was referring to was the one based on my personal opinion. Not the one above. Look matey, I could go back through quite a lot of your post and really embarrass you now, couldn't I?

However, I see that now he tries to make me look like his ally, so I feel the need to express my utter disagreement with his little list.


Alkis, this is a disgusting way to talk to somebody who has not offended you. I you are offended by being 5th in the list, a list that is created by a computer, then it is only you that looks pathetic.

At first I thought it was so pathetic I couldn't help but sympathize with him. Others have explained some of the obvious flaws, allow me to state some more:
-FIFA gives plenty of points to competition winners. A victory in a final does not equal a victory in any other match of the same competition. If you had thought of that, Robert, you'd save yourself from the embarrasment of having a #1 who was 4th in Athens and 2nd in England. Everybody saw that flaw, Filippo (with who you worked on this system) asked you to give more points to the WC competition but you turned your deaf ear.


I am not embarrassed by the work I have put into this. I notice no-one else has produced anything better. I have not turned a deaf ear to criticism. I have been debating this subject for the last week.

-The easiest way to lie is by using numbers. This format is so heavily biased against me, that most people shouted at you for it. My 17-0 against Tim gave me too many points, so you conveniently deleted it, while the 8 goals Gianluca scored against Andy were perfectly normal in your opinion. So I was lucky to be drawn in the same group with Tim? I suppose the fact that Martin Beard, Nazim, Jacob and Steve Screech were in the same group was unimportant? I don't remember FIFA say "The American Samoa are too weak, let's not give any points to Australia for their 31-0".


Alkis, the results against Tim Klifman were a joke. He'd never played KO2 in his life. Everyone in that group was about 200 points higher as a result. It totally distorted the rankings.

You also conveniently could not find the Greek meeting's results, although they were in the forum under a "Greek meeting results" header! So other people find it for you, and guess what? Your little point system only gives me 18 points, although I defeated #1 twice!


Alkis your total ignorance is really pissing me off now. There were only 18 of the Athens results in there, out of 30 games. The table you had there does not add up. In your absence I have spent a week trying to piece together the missing results - JUST TO GIVE YOU YOUR EXTRA POINTS. Why don't you read the thread 'Missing Athens Results?.

During my absence, you tried your best to underrate my abilities. You said twice that if I had shown up in Gloucester, I'd have gotten creamed due to my luck of practice, forgetting that I won the Greek touney with no practice at all.


Yawn. Do you think I've got nothing better to do than proceed with a hate campiagn against you? Why bother? Matey I earn €100,000 a year and this thing is a little sideshow to me. I spend my day working with spreadsheets and I thought I would try and do something with the results record, as an interesting project. Now I have the world and his wife thinking I've victimised them. Rikki calls it bollocks because he's not top. You guys are really very sad and egotistical if you think this is all motivated by trying to run you down. Jesus wept, I really can't believe I am hearing this.

So here I am in 5th place, although I've never lost a game against any of the players above me, and I have played against everyone but Rikki. Oh yes, I did play against Gianluca, you even witnessed that game remember? I won 4-1. You want more friendly results from Dartford?
vs Steve Screech: 4-1
vs Riemer: 3-0
vs Klaus: 4-0
vs Martin: 3-1
vs Mark Elliott: 5-3
vs you: 5-0
vs James L: 3-2
vs Filippo: 2-1


IT DOESN'T INCLUDE FRIENDLY RESULTS. WE DON'T HAVE A RECORD OF FRIENDLY RESULTS. I can find a post written by Alkis, saying that the friendly result against Gianluca didn't count because FoxSoft wasn't even using his own joystick.

and many more victories that I don't remember. I've never lost a match in my life in three global tournaments, yet I'm #5. How ironic is that?


You are sounding a real Wonka I'm afraid.

Bottom line: I have no problem with you cooking your little numbers and writing them over and over again until they suit your liking, nobody takes your list seriously anyway. However, if anyone decides to name this list official, I want my name deleted from it. I prefer being unranked than being judged by you.


Alkis, I simply cannot believe what you wrote earlier. You are totally out of order. I have a list of names that I feel like calling you right now, but to be honest that isn't my style and I'm still shellshocked by this totally unprovoked attack.

Last night I sent you a copy of the ranking spreadsheet so you could look at every last aspect of it. It includes the Athens results that I've rebuilt from your incomplete information. You have not replied to this friendly email but instead launched into a savage personal attack that leaves me thinking you have tourettes syndrome and a Napoleon complex.

I will say this one last time for you people.

IT IS ONLY A SPREADSHEET
IT IS NOT MY PERSONAL OPINION
IT IS ONLY BASED ON TOURNAMENTS RESULTS SINCE NOVEMBER
IT IS NOT DESIGNED TO VICTIMIZE ANY PERSON

The way I have been treated on here, you'd think I was Heinrich fucking Himmler. I am pretty disappointed with the company I've been keeping. My wife tells me that I am 29 and not to play children's games. When I look at some of the childish rubbish that's written on here, and the abuse that's hurled at me, it makes me wonder why I invest any time in the KOA at all.

Very very disappointed <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_frown.gif">
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Postby alkis21 » Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:48 pm

What's "tourettes syndrome and a Napoleon complex"?
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Postby Robert Swift » Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:49 pm

Gawd, I just read it again.

Alkis, your whole post boils down to one basic premise: This whole project is conceived and designed to make Alkis look bad.

I really cannot absorb the idea that YOU ACTUALLY THINK THIS. It makes me very very sad for you.

This is what I find really insulting, the idea that I have nothing better to do with my time. And the really hilarious thing, is that there are half a dozen other people who think the whole thing was designed to victimize them!

Hold on, it can't be designed to underrate everybody!

Some of you people are really sad. Right now, I feel like Dr Frankenstein, with a large and angry mob waiting outside to burn me. Fine, if you don't understand something, you feel threatened; it's always better to destroy it.

I am really exhausted by the passion and hate within that post by Alkis. I still cannot understand where it came from. Right now I don't feel too kindly about him, but there's no benefit in retaliating by calling names.

Alkis I would appreciate a personal mail from you in future, you have my personal address, it's RSwift6925@aol.com , please do not litter the forum with personal attacks like you have done in the past.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Robert Swift on 2002-04-02 02:03 ]</font>
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Postby Beckite » Mon Apr 01, 2002 9:00 pm

Well,what to say?Before the last few posts i was going to say that all this intense statistical breakdown of matches etc was getting a bit intense and maybe the that the whole point has been lost,kick off 2 is only a computer game.
Well that fact still remains...its only a game.
Im pretty sure there are some fairly simple misunderstandings going back and forth here so im gonna take the cowards way out for now and choose not to get involved.
Besides i dont want a lawsuit for libel what with Roberts obvious wealth i couldnt afford the case going against me. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif">
Take it easy chaps. <IMG SRC="/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif">
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Postby alkis21 » Mon Apr 01, 2002 9:04 pm

Maybe you should read it a third time, there was no hate or passion, and definetely no name calling in my post. I was perfectly calm when I wrote it. I've never launched personal attacks in this forum, just counter attacks. Now are you going to answer my question about these syndromes you said?
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Postby SimonB » Mon Apr 01, 2002 9:17 pm

On 2002-04-01 22:49, Robert Swift wrote:

Right now, I feel like Dr Frankenstein, with a large and angry mob waiting outside to burn me. Fine, if you don't understand something, you feel threatened; it's always better to destroy it.



...I suppose that makes me Igor then?
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Postby SimonB » Mon Apr 01, 2002 11:24 pm

Shtop shtop ... I'm going to get my mum in a minute to start banging some heads together.

The sad truth of the matter is that we can't all come round to my house every weekend and play against each other - its just not possible - just like Brazil, Greece, England, France et al can't play each other week in week out - hence there's a statistical calculation to provide some sort to measuring stick.

As Alkis stated - Columbia are ranked #5 in the world by FIFA - a complete travesty as I'm sure everyone agrees that there are many teams better than the Columbians - but statistics cannot lie so Columbia must have done the business (probably home and away against Brazil in world cup qualification).

Now I'm sure FIFA spent millions developing the statistical analysis that ended up making this calculation - so it just goes to show that personal opinion is always going to clash with statistical fact - and that rankings (even those of FIFA) are always going to be flawed in some manner.

What we as the KOA are trying to achieve is a fair system to rank the members so that we avoid a situation whereby Alkis, Rikki, Bill and anyone else who thinks that they are the best in the world sit in the forums arguing about who is better than who because one of them couldn't make it to Greece, but could still beat the others whilst blind-folded with both arms tied behind their back.

Secondly - its providing us with a means to seed the upcoming world championships so that I'm not put in a qualifying group with Rikki, Bill, Alkis, Nazim (for example) which would be a great shame for the tournament (and for me).

Let embrace the spreadsheet - give it some time - then review in 6 months and if people are still not happy then everyone can suggest tweaks and I'm sure Robert will be happy to amend. Having read all of the posts on this thread I cannot agree with any of the criticisms thus far - all have been explained away and it all makes perfect sense to me.

...and one final comment:


Bottom line: I have no problem with you cooking your little numbers and writing them over and over again until they suit your liking, nobody takes your list seriously anyway. However, if anyone decides to name this list official, I want my name deleted from it. I prefer being unranked than being judged by you.


...not your finest moment Alkis - I would have expected a more dignified comment from the world champion, not a 'throwing your rattle out of the pram' response.
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Postby Danny D » Tue Apr 02, 2002 12:15 am

Guys, I really didn't want to get involved in this but I feel obliged to.

I have met both of you Rober and Alkis in person.I think you are both great guys and great ko2 players.I don't agree with Robert's table but it really doesn't bother me.

You are both great ko2 players.fact number one.
You are both great guys.fact number two.
Lets get over this and bring the koa forward not backward.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Danny Dinneen on 2002-04-02 02:16 ]</font>
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Postby VKafiris » Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:38 am

Robert had the idea to create a ranking system for the KOA. No one told him so, no one forced him to do it; on the contrary, he did it with his own will, just because he LOVED to. Now that's where I support Robert. He proved for one more time that he's an active KOA member. Thumbs up for that. What should the rest of us do is to suggest ideas in order to refine the initial idea, not to abolish it. I'm sure that many people won't be satisfied by the final outcome; but then we can't trade this for nothing.
So I say we stick with it at the moment and enhance Robert's idea by adding our opinions in a realistic basis without bearing in mind our individual indulge.
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Postby JamesHBeard » Tue Apr 02, 2002 8:07 am

I second your feelings Vasilis mate.

Robert has obviously spent a lot of time designing his rating system and with the KOA's help refining the rules for the rankings we will have a good system.
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Postby kofoed » Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:49 am

the reason for columbias high ranking is that they won the south americas championships in Columbia last year. the event was under threat from guerrilas and drug syndicates so no one dared to send their best team... except Columbia.
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Postby dEaDfRoG » Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:35 am

Also, Englands ranking slipped (no really) just before Euro 96 cos we weren't playing competitive football on account of our auto-qualification.

So it's quite fair in that respect, but on the other hand we don't have an even number of matches scheduled across a year like International teams.

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Postby durban » Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:11 am

Why do people get so upset with their so called 'rankings'

Personally I play KO2 to meet people like you lot and to have fun when playing, if I ever got to number one it would be an honour for me, we have several worthy number ones in our bunch, but at the same time the most important thing is friendship and being civil with each other.

If KO2 is to come between friends then I say sod KO2, friendship is more important.

We are all good people here, but when we start arguing about KO2 we all get bad mannered and rude to one another.
As the above says Rob created this KO2 stats thing because he wanted to, if people don't agree with it then thats fine, but lets not use it as a weapon to argue over it.

If people aren't happy with it as it isn't fair then make your own and I guarantee that won't be fair in someones eyes.

Lets all just get along and agree to disagree.

I like the chart because there is a lot of thought and work involved in it and I appreciate that, I don't look at the standings and say they are official because they aren't but they are good enough for me to see clusters of players and where I want to be in the clusters.

Can we all please go back to discussing the worlds sexiest women or something?

Ta

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