The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

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hogstrom
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby hogstrom » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:00 pm

Rodolfo wrote:What annoys me most is that we do have the cameras. Is not that we could place them, it is only about looking at the giant stadium screen!


Well said, Rodolfo.

Hopefully this with cameras in use will be solved in time for next Wcup in Brazil, the fact that this Wcup have been loaded with expensive mistakes could speak for that.
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Steve1977 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:31 pm

Absolute disgrace. Doesent seem to matter who we have in charge...ever since the 2006 World Cup we'v just gone into our shell and something is up - maybe the players dont like each other? dunno.
Remember Euro 2004 in Portugal? Rooney burst onto the scene with a scorcher against. We were unlucky not to beat Portugal. 2 years before we were unlucky in Korea...were it not for Beckham jumping out the way against Brazil and who knows? But then he wouldnt change it...hmmm...which new England manager refused to change the system!
Do Foreign coaches have such a lack of faith in our players they think we can only play 4-4-2? Big things have to change...what use is it having the 'best league in the world' when the English players there are shite? Performances like the one today really diminish the Premier League for me...maybe the reason why Lambard and Rooney are on fire is because they have more talented foreign counterparts picking up the pieces. Or maybe its because those teams dont necessarily have the most gifted players bur harness a good team spirit.

For me, Gerrard, Lampard (who was unlucky today) etc. have had their chances. We need to bring in other players and this world cup would have been a good time to introduce them. Players who performed well for U21's like Germany did...what did we do? Recall 2 has-beens in Scholes and Carragher...took an injured player and relied on the same old tried and tested. Germany were taking the piss at the end with their passing. Or maybe thats the problem. We'r so in love with players from overseas because they speak with a different accent to our own we automatically deem them better players. Sadly, this is now applying to the coaches now too. Benitez for instance has completely destroyed the soul of Liverpool with foreign (mostly Spanish) mercenaries...god forbid whoever takes that job btw.

What gets me though is we didnt go out valiantly today. We wernt unlucky. 4-1 down? We'r brought up to believe that dreams CAN come true but the England team? They gave up with 20 minutes to go for crying out loud! True we should have equalised but even before then our defence was shaky. Fair play to Germany...hopefully they'l go on to win it.
As much as Germany are our achilles heel they'r also the country who I cant help but like. Going from being defeated in 1966 to years of success with no moping about and what did they do after we beat them in Euro 2000? They completely overhauled their youth system to ensure better German players would be found and come through whereas in England the powers that be only care about money. "ahh yes Mr. Capello...you have such an intriguing name that we'l give you 5 million even though you didnt ask for a new contract and because you'v got us sort of playing to the minimum standard we should expect from an England team...oh and sign this before you take part in your first world cup? Whats that? Lack of tournament experience? nonesense...here's this big wad of cash.

Things have got to change. But it wont.
Last edited by Steve1977 on Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Steve1977 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:32 pm

About the use of video replays....to be honest, I doubt whether this would have worked at this world cup anyway. They messed the ball up and now the pitches are being slagged off. So they'd have probably forgot to press record or something. Getting really pissed off with this world cup now when players dont control the ball and it keeps on rolling...and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.and rolling...and rolling...and rolling.

Then someone kicks it over the bar.

Argentina and Mexico was a class game though and Teves's last goal was quality. Lampard hits them better though...in the Premier League. For England? You gotta be kidding me! :?o: :(
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Oliver St » Sun Jun 27, 2010 9:39 pm

Robert Swift wrote:By the way, this is a prediction - call me Nostradamus today - but there will be something shit/unlucky/illegal about Germany's goal. It will probably come from a free kick that was not a foul, and be scored by an offside player using his hand. It will then bounce off the post and hit the keeper in the ass before rolling over the line.


This is just priceless. Even if this was an anonymous post I would be able to identify it as something written by the one and only Robert Swift :lol: .
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Kostas O » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:16 pm

This was bound to happen some day. This is not a world cup, it's a farce. Having the refs making silly decisions just to support a more silly decision by FIFA. They did however what they should do.
There are no matches after those ridiculous moments. I am not talking about the refs, they will make mistakes and very silly ones.
The problem is with FIFA and their decision to keep what they call technology out of the game. They failed however to keep replays out of the big screens in the stadiums. This messed with both the players and the refs and deprived us of what seemed to be 2 fantastic matches. Germany and Argentina are obviously better but this was a disgrace.
They don't want technology to keep the game close to it's roots and tradition but as all traditions if they fail to keep up with real life they become tourist attractions. And they use technology to mess the ball in order to keep the sponsors happy for the money.
No cameras, they need to put sensors on both the ball and the players and 2 extra referees. Especially the last will happen for sure very soon after today.
Football is dragged to being an attraction for making money. Especially the world cup is the worst.
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby hogstrom » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:56 pm

After starting with Rooney/Heskey in the two first group matches, without giving more fruit than one single goal vs not the strongest of opposition (USA and Algeria) it was very much expected that he (Capello) would change the lineup when facing Slovenia, and he did. The third match looked much better, Defoe were far more lively than Heskey.

In todays match between England and Germany (when 4-1 down) Capello decided, in the 71st minute, that it was time to take in poor Heskey again. Out went Defoe. Thus Capello decided to stay on the standard, 4-4-2. This, instead of going all out attack. Why not change to something more attacking when they must score 3 goals with only 20 minutes left? Why did he not try anything more attacking than 4-4-2? What had Capello expected this move (striker vs striker) would produce? A 4-4 draw? And why on earth did he take Heskey in? He is a big lad, but both slower and shorter than Mertesacker. Even i knew that Heskey would have zero chance 1 on 1 vs the big german centreback. Why not anyone else? Surely extremely tall Crouch would have been a better option.

First in minute 87 Capello take out rightback (Johnson) and take in winger, Wright-Phillips. First then Capello decide it is time to leave 4-4-2 (or maybe Wright-Phillips played the last 6 minutes as rightback as well?) Why act first in the 87:th minute? By reading the actions of Capello, it seem to me that Capello were the first one (and not the players) to surrender in this match.

All this sticking with something that never ever have a chance in this world to turn a match around remind me of Swedens old coach, Lagerbäck. He was also extremely slow (not as bad as acting with only 3 minutes left) in making changes if Sweden badly needed to score one or two goals.

I know Capello have won a lot in the past, but yesterday he did certainly not impress on me with his tactics.
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Tripod » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:13 am

Sorry about that, my English pals! I think the first thought on any German's mind after that disallowed goal was that we've finally been repayed for 1966. But it was a terrible decision fullstop. And what makes matters even worse, if it is true what they said on telly yesterday: The linesman had given the goal - and then he'd actually seen the replay on the big screen and called the ref over and told him about it but the ref had to stand by his decision because that's what they arrived at without help from the cameras. Terrible situation, even for the ref. And I don't think we should employ two extra referees just to watch the goal line nor am I sure about the chip in the ball, I think it should simply be like American football, the managers get a chance to challenge the referee - only one or two challenges per match, so the game doesn't get interrupted too much. And then the ref will check the replays but still decide by himself (or together with the 4th official) if he'll change his mind.

Anyway, back to the game. That Germany went ahead 2-0 so easily I felt was due to what I was trying to say beforehand: The Germans knew how to be in the game from the opening whistle while England tried to fight its way into the match. Surprisingly offensive, but since at first even the simplest passes would go wrong, Germany got possession too easily and found too much room in the English half. The match could have basically been over then but I have to say, I thought England did pretty well after being 0-2 down. They did fight their way into the game, the 1-2 helped of course and sure, who knows what would have happened if it had been 2-2 at half time.

But to be honest, I thought the weakest link were the centre backs and goalie James. The 0-1 should never ever happen. James did not position himself well before the 0-2, the angle was tight and he left the near post wide open, Podolski played the ball through his legs and nearly missed the goal beyond the far post. And James will have to take the blame for Germany's third goal. But the defenders didn't exactly help him in preventing any of these goals.

From a German point of view: The two first goals by Klose and Podolski yet again. Incredible. As I'd said beforehand, there was a lot of criticism for even taking these two guys along, let alone letting them play. Kießling was the top goalscorer this season but Löw is sticking with Klose and he's being repayed handsomly. And the last two goals by 20 year old Thomas Müller. This chap played for Bayern's U23 in the third division when van Gaal took over last year but the Dutch manager "discovered" him, Müller did not miss a single match for Bayern all season (except for on in the CL because of a yellow card ban) and now he's irreplacable in the German squad, too, and he's totally normal and calm and in the interview right after the game he asked if he may greet his two grandmothers and granddad, it was long overdue. Özil of course is only a year older and is extremely good already and with Marin and Kroos we have two more guys who are just as young and talented on the bench.

I also have to praise Hertha's captain Arne Friedrich again. For Hertha he used to play in tandem with Josip Simunic, one of the best centre backs I've ever seen. Simunic left Hertha a year ago and things went downhill from there, but it wasn't due to Friedrich playing badly, in fact I thought it was his best season ever. Nonetheless, he and his team were relegated and others seemed the more likely candidates to be in the starting lineup for Germany, at least according to the media, I had watched Friedrich all season and said he should start. And he kept his cool while England was piling up the pressure. Well, sadly I won't see him play for Hertha anymore, he doesn't want to go down into the 2nd division and Hertha can't afford his wage anymore. He should be getting plenty of offers and I wish him well for the future.
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby alkis21 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 6:50 am

OK, I want to attempt a more tactical analysis of the match. Hopefully this time I will be allowed to speak my mind and I won't be called an anti-English bore again. I am well aware that my national team is 10 times worse than England, but I still want to comment as a neutral fan who was supporting neither opponent yesterday.

First of all, the Germans. Amazing performance, I agree with Nikos, their all-around passing was nothing short of magnificent. As much as it benefited from England's non-defense (more on that later), they looked less like a national team and more like a club that consists of players who have been together for 5 years. Ozil is really the key player in my opinion, the one who makes a difference compared to 2008. Khedira does a lot of dirty work, and Neuer continues the tradition of class German goalkeepers. Friedrich makes one mistake every 5 matches, if that. I could be wrong, but the way I see it Ballack did them a favor by getting injured.

As for England...Yes, the disallowed goal was a shame and a disgrace and yes, most probably we would be looking at a totally different second half if the referees had done their job. But I remember thinking "damn it, once again they'll blame it all on the refs and ignore their actual problems" just like it happened before. If the KOA forum is any indication, the English believe that England were not the 2004 European champion because "Campbell never fouled Ricardo" and they were not the 2006 World champion because "Ronaldo told the ref to give Rooney a red card". I was pleasantly surprised to read everyone's comments that proved me wrong. It seems that the English are done looking for excuses, which is good because the first step of cure is admitting that you have a problem.

In my opinion, the English team yesterday exhibited the worse defensive behavior in this world cup, equivalent to the one of North Korea. Everyone whose "job" is to defend, from the midfielders to the goalkeeper, were abysmal, with the possible exception of Cole who had some good moments. Where do I begin? Yes Lampard had some great shots and deserved a goal, but did he or Gerrard or Milner ever intercept ONE German pass? The midfielders did not seem to be arsed to run back in defense when the ball was lost. Johnson, at least that one is no surprise, we know how easily he can mess up a game, he does it all the time for Liverpool. But whatever happened to Terry yesterday? He ran around like a chicken with his head cut off. As for Upson... I believe I mentioned him before in this thread, I'm very fond of him because I'm certain he must have some Greek blood in him. Good lad, agile, with a lot of great qualities, football unfortunately not being one of them. He turns like wolves do; with his entire upper body as if he is unable of twisting his neck. The defensive line's offside trap was begging to be broken.

If you think I'm exaggerating, find me one more international team in the world that conceded one goal from a GOAL KICK and one right after their OWN FREE KICK in the same match.

As others pointed out, Capello's substitutions made zero sense.

Now let's talk about James... the phrase "English goalkeeper" is becoming the world's shortest joke. Although not directly responsible for any of the goals, at least not in the way Green was the sole responsible of the USA goal, can you honestly picture Neuer conceding any of the first three goals? In the first goal, he has a clear view of the whole pitch being the goalkeeper. He sees the ball coming... and coming... and coming.. and bouncing... going up... then down... won by Klose... and he still doesn't move a muscle! He does not decide to leave his damn line until it's too late. In the second goal, his stance is so cataclysmically wrong Podolski could have taken the shot in 10 different ways and they would have all gone in. In situations like this, the goalkeeper is supposed to guard his corner with his life, position his body so as to put as much meat between the ball and the goal as possible. Watch what James does during that goal again and laugh. The third goal was a powerful shot, but it was going right at him, the kind of shots where we call the keeper lucky because the attacker shoots directly at them. Not our dear James; he promptly jumped out of the way to prevent that evil ball from hitting him. Fisher would be proud.

No, dear friends, this person is not a professional goalkeeper. He's a video game sprite where collision detection has been turned off.

So yes, I agree with those who said that the English team needs some radical changes, possibly with some young blood injected into the squad. And for God's sake, at least do what everyone else does and if you can't find a keeper just import one, give him an English passport or something.

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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Semtex » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:33 am

Just had to pop by and give my comments on the game yesterday. As a neutral Germany v England is a great spectacle and yesterday was again, for different reasons mostly.
A disastrous decision, not even slightly close to call, and then 2-2. And who's to say England wouldn't have got another quick goal and been 3-2 at half time? The Germans were in disarray.
And that is the key point. Germany were good, not great. Their defence looks incredibly weak to me (something I felt Wales could have exploited in the qualifiers but for injuries to key players and a referee who made even worse decisions than that poor chap yesterday) I hope the Germans don't do what England do and suddenly get all excited...
Argentina will rip them apart at the back.
But going forward Germany do look good, and Argentina look weak at the back too (Germany ALWAYS have clinical finishers unlike the pretty-football-but-toothless Mexicans). It's who makes the most mistakes (and hopefully it won't be the ref this time) that will decide that one.
I wouldn't be surprised by a 4-3 scoreline.

Germany's first goal was pure kick off. Straight from a goal kick FFS! Cox had wandered off, as is his wont, and Barber is onto the ball in a flash. Just a simple tap past Fisher and 1-0... Watching it almost made me want to dust off the old joystick to see if I could do any better!

As for technology - I bet the referees are the ones who want it most. You could see those two yesterday. they looked like players who have picked up another yellow card in the semis; they know their world cup is over and there is nothing more they can do about it...
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby TheFoxSoft » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:30 pm

Germany showed an interesting football, however i think 2-2 would change the inertia of the match.
In my opinion the match was decided by keepers, the german one (i miss the name) did 2 crucial super-saves in 1st and 2nd half while Calamity James did all wrong, i agree with Alkis he was really terrible. Let Howard marry with an english girl because is 10 times better than any english keeper!

England was my 2nd favourite team, I was very confident this year would be good for England but i was wrong, Capello after a good qualification did many mistakes. First insisting on Heskey and Johnson (oh my God, he can't defend, he can't attack...so useless).
It seems Italy and England are in the same situations, the big players are now old while they dont' have good young ones. Maybe it's time to have interesting foreigners players in national team like Germany does?
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Tripod » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:47 pm

TheFoxSoft wrote:Maybe it's time to have interesting foreigners players in national team like Germany does?


It's an interesting point, we now have a lot of players who could have played for another nation. However, a lot of them were born in Germany and we've also lost a ton of players who decided to play for somebody else - like Berlin-born Kevin-Prince Boateng (whose half-brother Jerome plays for Germany) or Cameroon's Choupo-Moting, who both played for all of Germany's youth teams up to U21 and had never visited Africa before. We have a very multi-cultural society and it shows more and more in the national team and I don't think there's any friction or splitting into small groups.
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby gdh82 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:16 pm

Have been away for a long weekend but unfortunately despite the fantastic weather there is no escaping that black cloud... :(

First of all, full credit to Germany for a thoroughly deserved victory. I admire your decisive approach play which so ruthlessly revealed the tactical and organisational limitations of Capello's England. Man for man, we should have given Germany a real game yesterday but we had no answer to the set-up and gameplan of the Germans. Sure, we were denied a goal but this is a side issue imo, and like Alkis said, shouldn't be used to paper over the cracks of our worst world cup result ever! Certainly one of the most inept defensive displays from England. That centre half pairing shouldn't be allowed! Upson played for Birmingham for years and I've never felt he was of international standard. And I never seen Terry so out of position. Johnson can't tackle and that unbalanced midfield provided no protection either.

Hogstrom wrote:I know Capello have won a lot in the past, but yesterday he did certainly not impress on me with his tactics.

It's undeniable that the players have underperformed but I actually place much of the blame for this with Capello. There's little evidence of his man-management skills - that team lacked spirit when the chips were down - and based on Englands WC showing, tactically, the boss actually seemed out of his depth. Maybe club managment is his limit?

Throughout this tournament, it seemed like virtually every football fan and journalist's dog in the country was screaming for Capello to change 442 but he didn't. Everyone knows that you lose 50% from Gerard when he's stuck out on the wide left. Everyone's aware of what an amazing season Rooney has had as the lone striker. Surely you build a team around your best players? It was as if because Capello had had such a successful qualifying campaign, he thought he could replicate this at the finals themselves. BIG MISTAKE. Worse than that he seemed incapable of changing the shape of the team when things were clearly going wrong. He seemed so one dimensional with his like-for-like subsitutions that achieved absolutely nothing, and were so frustrating to watch.

We were never going to win the damn thing but to put in such poor displays in a relatively weak group and then not adapt or learn from it, is unforgiveable. It was almost inevitable that we would be found out sooner or later, and in a twisted kind of way, the Germans and that linesman have probably done us a favour. And to hear Capello say in today's press conference the players were 'tired' is not good enough. He seems to have lost the players, the fans, the FA are hardly giving him 100% backing right now, and I wouldn't be sorry to see Capello go!
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Re: The 2010 FIFA World Cup thread

Postby Jam King » Mon Jun 28, 2010 4:40 pm

I agree Gaz, although not entirely his fault, Capello has played a major role in the poor displays with poor tactical decisions and just being very rigid and unadventureous. I hope he goes, I think we need to go bck to basics and start again, which in a way is what Germany has done and now have themselves a young talented team that should be good for the next world cup if not the next two. I would be hppy with Roy hodgson as mananger, he has experience around the world, seems to get the best out of players and is tactically very aware, just look what he did for fulham, they would have died for him on that pitch. And the most important thing he is English, Im not saying that that is always a neccessity but because of Capello and his serious lack of interest and character I think the fans do need an Englishman to take charge and build a team that the nation can be proud of. I think a English manager would be so much more determined to get the team back on track, cause only a true Englishman can feel how the nation feels right now.
Also I think I speak on behave of a lot of English fans when it frustrated me that Capello only doesnt seem to understand much English when asked an awkward question, in qualifiers when we were winning his English was better, strange that!!! And when he finally gets round to answering the questions he just talks shit, and then he starts stuttering and looking at the interpreter, how the fuck can he give a inspiring team talk if he cant speak the lingo. I want the next England manager when interviewed to refer the England as 'us' and 'we'. Capello cant give us that simply cause he's not English. it would be the same for every country, look at the patriatism in the Argentina camp, they are all proud of the national team and that can only completely happen if you are with your home team.

I take it back about calling Johnson a useless turd, I have know turds that are more use.
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