Greece. WTF?

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Semtex
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Greece. WTF?

Postby Semtex » Wed May 05, 2010 9:50 am

So what's the truth guys? Can't trust the BBC bullshit.
Cuts for the poorest whilst the rich still take their cut eh? Same shit heading our way, whichever colour gets power. A hung parliament will be only slightly better than a dung parliament...

Really pisses me off when I read about lazy and corrupt Greeks. So that's all ten million or so? Bet the vast majority work hard and are honest. But of course all single parents are scroungers over here so they'll get their just deserts too...

And who do they owe money to? Is it the same fucking banks that have near-destroyed the world's economies?

It's the bankers that run the world so who's gonna be stupid enough to bother voting this time?

Just hope it's not too bad for you guys in Athens,
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Steve Camber » Wed May 05, 2010 9:53 am

HAYDN!!!!!!!!
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Semtex
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Semtex » Wed May 05, 2010 9:55 am

Steve Camber wrote:HAYDN!!!!!!!!
:gban: :gban: :gban:


This is no time for dancing bananas!!! We'll be lucky if we can afford dancing turnips by the end of the year...
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Rodolfo » Wed May 05, 2010 11:37 am

I have read that a Greek policeman can retire with full pay at 45. Is that true?

Talking from a Spanish point of view - and Spain is next in the list - it only takes a little look around to see thousands of things that do not work as they should. Everyone, the big and the small, is as tricky and cheater as possible. It is naif blaming the banks when everybody wants a social pay and nobody wants to pay taxes. When politicians favour corruption in as many ways as possible, beginning with a insanelly oversized volume of civil servants. If we would put the same effort in working as we do in cheating, this would be f***** Switzerland! This can be managed when things go fine, but when bad times arrive, this crazy stupid social building collapses, of course. It is only a miracle that it lasted so long.
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Bounty Bob » Wed May 05, 2010 12:53 pm

Semtex wrote:
Steve Camber wrote:HAYDN!!!!!!!!
:gban: :gban: :gban:


This is no time for dancing bananas!!! We'll be lucky if we can afford dancing turnips by the end of the year...

:gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban: :gban:
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby hogstrom » Wed May 05, 2010 2:44 pm

Good you opened this Haydn. And good to see you back!

I have read loads and loads again of this crisis in Greece. I can recall that i have heard from more than one greek member here that they would have (slightly said) wished more from the politicans in Greece. Though, i regret never really asked what was in particular wrong.

In the swedish papers they have stated "what gone wrong" in Greece, and apart from the corruption and difficulties from getting in tax, from taxidrivers for instance, they mention little more.

I have difficulties to understand the picture here. Is this i mentioned above the main issues? Can any greek explaine for me?

As Haydn, i feel sorry for you greeks that is far away from guilty for this mess now likely face a very hard time :(
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby hogstrom » Wed May 05, 2010 2:48 pm

Rodolfo wrote:Talking from a Spanish point of view - and Spain is next in the list


Read somewhere that more than 18% is unemployed in Spain, that sounds like a horrible situation.
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Abyss » Wed May 05, 2010 3:06 pm

I could write a veeeeeeery lengthy post here (if I could get round to knowing where to start from...), but I don't know if it would make the situation clearer. I think that everything described as a "financial crisis" in this world is just a symptom of financial figures being an abstract term with no direct reflection to real economic values and assets. Basically, we live beyond our means.

But I really don't know the inner workings of finance and banking.

I do know that the protests have many causes.
People protest because we live in a state that gives us so little, in terms of infrastructure and services, but demands so much (in tax). FFS, I checked the baby diapers I bought yesterday from the Super Market and found out that they are taxed at 38% - considered luxury items!
People protest because there is a great feeling of injustice - none from those that are abstractly blamed for the financial situation is actually prosecuted.
People protest because they see that all the sacrifices asked from them will have no meaning - the same corrupt political will continue to control things.
People protest because they feel that all the cost-cutting measures do not actually target the rich.
People protest because they see privileges taken away from them.

Of course, there is an overlap in that the same people that protest, are probably the same that have taken advantage of the corrupt system to establish their position in the public sector or get some short of "favor".

Do you know that Greece, being a relatively poor country, has the 2nd largest amount of Porche Cayenne cars sold all over Europe?

Just for an indication of the reality and the level of corruption and what feeds all this rage - justified or not:
Yesterday, here in Greece, we learned that Greek politicians previously bought 4 military submarines and received 93 million in kickbacks from the (German) manufacturers which was passed to the Greek taxpayer. On the same day it was announced that wages will be cut, no compensation will be given for getting fired, VAT will be increased for the second time in two months etc.
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Semtex » Wed May 05, 2010 3:44 pm

All governments live beyond their means. When banks do it Governments bail them out. When paupers do it they get imprisoned...
Look at our situation.
Both Lab and Con want to be the new green party. Eco this and environmentally friendly that. And increased taxes to pay for it.
But where the fuck, I'd like to know, are they gonna buy eco-friendly nuclear weapons to replace Trident??
And how much will it cost? 100 mil at least.
When we are already broke.
Fucking crazy.
But it's a deterrent. From whom? Because it ain't deterring Iran and North Korea from wanting them. So it ain't gonna deter them from using them.

And the wonderful thing is we've got the olympics. All these wonderful jobs and money coming into the country. That'll keep us safe. Just ask Greece...
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby manicx » Wed May 05, 2010 5:14 pm

It's not only the politicians' fault. Most Greeks were licking the balls of politicians to get a job in the public sector. Secure job, secure monthly pay check. Nobody thought what the future will bring and people voted the one that will secure a job for them and their family in the public sector. Politicians adore power, they 'helped' of course. In Greece, we ended paying enormous taxes that went mainly for the wages in the public sector but still, it was not enough to pay everything.

All I can say is that a Europe was never a Union. Most wars started in Europe, people still hate each other. US was built as that from the ground up. Europe was not. Some people allowed countries like Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland etc in the EU. That was a tragic mistake. All for the shake of a strong union and a strong currency? Greece and other countries MUST leave the Euro, go back to their currencies and devalue.

The problem with Greece is that a government here must privatize public sector companies. We MUST do this but the Greeks will protest again because we learned to have everything we want in the public sector. Nobody can fire you, nobody can deny you a secure wage, you get ridiculous bonuses and everything is nice. When someone will ask you to work like we do in the private sector, he is a bad prime minister.

I can't see hope. Last year, I bought a flat here. Today it would be impossible to have a mortgage approved but I regret for buying this flat because with the current situation, I see no hope. I would leave Greece and go to another place, maybe playing KO2 with Robert in Dubai. Private sector employees will be the victims in terms of taxation.

@ Rodolfo, yes, police officers, army officers etc can leave and get a good pension. I won't call it enormous, but if you have two such pensions (with your wife) you can live happily.
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby gdh82 » Wed May 05, 2010 6:02 pm

Good to see you back Haydn and a very interesting thread you've started here. Like others, you can't help but be concerned about events unfolding on our news reports. Bad news for your guys over there right now :( but think we're all going to affected one way or another.

How bad is the financial situation in Greece? I heard on the tv that the UK's budget deficit is comparable but because we're not subject to the eurozone rules, we won't face the same measures. For now anyway....

How likeIy is all this going to spread? I've heard Portugal or Spain could be next (and then the UK!). Could this be the beginning of the end of the eurozone, if countries do try to opt out?

How much is this crisis down to the banking crisis or how much have the Greek government been on a spending spree? I read that public section pay has doubled in the past decade - really? After we've (the taxpayers) bailed out the banks, how about the banks return the favour for their part in all of this??? Yeah, like that's gonna happen.

How severe are these austerity measures? 38% VAT beforehand sounds shocking enough! Public section cuts and pay freezes are already on the way here in the UK but how much worse is it there?
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Freshmaker » Wed May 05, 2010 6:47 pm

Thanks for opening this thread Roomie. I'm defo gonna look into this thread when at work tonight. :)
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Re: Greece. WTF?

Postby Rodolfo » Wed May 05, 2010 11:40 pm

hogstrom wrote:
Rodolfo wrote:Talking from a Spanish point of view - and Spain is next in the list


Read somewhere that more than 18% is unemployed in Spain, that sounds like a horrible situation.


Yes, in fact is 20%. In some regions, as mine, Andalucía, is 27% (why do we always do it worse in the south?)

Back to Greece, and in general. Some people died today in the protests in Athens, and it does not look as if it is going to stop. And further than being a damage for our wallets, this is the kind of basement that it may become a damage for democracy. Yesterday I saw a picture of a huge communist flag in the Acropolis, people blaming the free market, protests, terrorism, people wanting safety, and then strong leader appears, and kills our freedom. It already happened, you know it. But what not so many people is aware of, is that before WW1, all Europe was a civiliced democracy, that nobody thought it would ever come to an end.
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